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The firing of Stan Lynch

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31 minutes ago, TomFest said:

Ran across this pic I hadn't seen before....looks pretty recent, no?

From this decade, definitely.  I think Stan has a beard now?  But yeah, isn't it great, you can see the affection they have for each other, even now.

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 6:06 PM, chimera said:

The way I analyze Stan's drumming reminds me of something which Steve Gorman (drummer for The Black Crowes) said about his own style: "I don't play the drums, I play songs on the drums."

That's a beautiful expression and describes Stan's approach pretty well, I agree.

He didn't just provide a backbeat (with the notable exception of ITGWO, maybe, where that was exactly what he was requested to do) but played a kind of a drum arrangement that complemented the other instruments. The Ringo way of doing it. But with a very unique feel you recognize easily. Which is quite an achievement, because he never overplayed.

He's a tragically underrated drummer when you think about it.

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2 minutes ago, TwoGunslingers said:

He's a tragically underrated drummer when you think about it.

I don't even have to think about it, actually. It's in my bones. :) 

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When I started playing the drums (back in the early nineties) I copied a lot of Stan's beats and fills. Specifically I remember Even The Losers and Don't Do Me Like That. His is a way of drumming that instantly spoke to me and was very easy for me to feel, so to speak.

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I was just thinking the other day that I would die if this became an episode of REELZ' Breaking The Band - not literally die, but the thought just makes me laugh (because I'm twisted like that) - but they would have to find someone really cute to play Stan - hell, everybody would have to be perfectly cast.  I wouldn't stand for any sub-par pretend Heartbreakers.

Then again, this event broke the band, but the band carried on anyway because by that point Tom had already gotten over the idea that he should break up the band.

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Wondering whether Stan felt he was losing out on vocal opportunities once Howie came in with his high harmony? 

Whether maybe he thought he coulda been a singing drummer (like Karen Carpenter :P or the mighty  Levon Helm :D)? 

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LOL, I don't know if Stan thought of himself in that particular role - I imagine he would have tried to pursue it if that's what he really wanted.  It has seemed to me, accruing bits of info over the years, that it was just something else he could do.  Like, he wasn't the only singer in Road Turkey either.

(But the name of Don and Stan's partnership should be Singing Drummers LLC, am I right?! :lol:)

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:36 PM, chimera said:

From this decade, definitely.  I think Stan has a beard now?  But yeah, isn't it great, you can see the affection they have for each other, even now.

Especially now, maybe. Again.

Maybe time does heal all wounds.

Then again, I'm not aware of Ben and Stan having any problems with each other.

But aren't they wonderful? What a lovely picture.

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This is from an interview in Modern Drummer from 2008. I think I'll post it on the site with the next batch of articles.

MD: What was your state of mind when you finally got the call that you were fired from the band?

Stan: Tom had basically told me I wasn't the right drummer for him anymore. He decided whatever I was doing he wasn't digging. So I wanted to put the drums down. I was feeling very insecure about them. I felt like, perhaps, I'd made all the noise I could. And I'm a guy that always wanted to be in a band. And when the set lists and all that stuff went away, I was really lost. I sat down at the drums and didn't know whether to cry of barf.

I had a kit in my house, and I had to take it away. I just couldn't look at it. I had to take all the mementos from the band out of my house, everything. I had to forget all that. It was almost like Men in Black. I had to hit myself in the face with one of those lights; when you wake up, you won't remember you were ever in a band. You're a guy who wants to write songs now.

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After reading in Warren Zanes book about his fight with Mike Campbell on the 1987 Dylan tour, the only question is how he managed to hang on for seven more years.  He and Mike never spoke again, and Mike was co-leader of the band. 

Between that fight and Stan's departure, Petty did five albums:  two Wilburys, two solo, one Heartbreakers.  Stan participated in exactly one of these projects and, because Jeff Lynne recorded one instrument at a time, even then didn't have to work with Mike directly.

Either Mike or Stan had to go, and god knows it wasn't going to be Mike.

It's all there in the book.

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I honestly don't know if it would have come down to a case of either one of them saying "It's him or me," to Tom, though.  Granted, I think it was one of the, say, top three issues which lead to Stan being fired (even though Tom said in that very same passage of Zanes' book that no one else took sides in the fight) but I think if Stan had behaved and unequivocally agreed to participate in the Wildflowers tour then he would have been there.  The situation had changed enough over the years as it was - they weren't the same group they had been when they started and they were soldiering on as best they could.  They were never friends again, but I think after about a year or so Mike was being civil to Stan (and vice versa) at the very least.

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On July 9, 2018 at 5:23 AM, TwoGunslingers said:

He didn't just provide a backbeat (with the notable exception of ITGWO, maybe, where that was exactly what he was requested to do) but played a kind of a drum arrangement that complemented the other instruments.

    I think it's an interesting talent and good ear to do  successfully. It's what Benmont called their version of "chamber music." 

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2 hours ago, Ben said:

He and Mike never spoke again, and Mike was co-leader of the band.

 That's intense.

2 hours ago, Ben said:

Stan participated in exactly one of these projects and, because Jeff Lynne recorded one instrument at a time, even then didn't have to work with Mike directly.

Either Mike or Stan had to go, and god knows it wasn't going to be Mike.

 Yeah, maybe if that fight hadn't happened Mike would've helped smooth things over between Tom and Stan. Or not. Maybe it was just time for the split to occur. 

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1 hour ago, chimera said:

but I think if Stan had behaved and unequivocally agreed to participate in the Wildflowers tour then he would have been there.  The situation had changed enough over the years as it was - they weren't the same group they had been when they started and they were soldiering on as best they could.  They were never friends again, but I think after about a year or so Mike was being civil to Stan (and vice versa) at the very least.

 I agree, I realize it's all just speculation but I think in time, Mike would've maybe cooled enough to get along. Watching Take the Highway I'd no clue there had been tension between the two of them. But I think Mike would've dealt with it for the sake of the band if Stan had been willing to really support Tom's songwriting with WF. Oh well.

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12 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

    I think it's an interesting talent and good ear to do  successfully. It's what Benmont called their version of "chamber music." 

I never really got this comparison, though. Chamber music is written and arranged beforehand, on paper, and performed the same way every time it's played, right? Doesn't leave room for improvisation. While the Heartbreakers went pretty much by instinct, as far as I can tell. Most of the time, everybody wrote their own parts.

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7 minutes ago, TwoGunslingers said:

Chamber music is written and arranged beforehand, on paper, and performed the same way every time it's played, right? Doesn't leave room for improvisation.

 From wikipedia:

Most broadly, it includes any art music that is performed by a small number of performers, with one performer to a part (in contrast to orchestral music, in which each string part is played by a number of performers). However, by convention, it usually does not include solo instrument performances.

Because of its intimate nature, chamber music has been described as "the music of friends".[1] For more than 100 years, chamber music was played primarily by amateur musicians in their homes, and even today, when chamber music performance has migrated from the home to the concert hall, many musicians, amateur and professional, still play chamber music for their own pleasure. Playing chamber music requires special skills, both musical and social, that differ from the skills required for playing solo or symphonic works.[2]

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe described chamber music (specifically, string quartet music) as "four rational people conversing".[3] This conversational paradigm–which refers to the way one instrument introduces a melody or motif and then other instruments subsequently "respond" with a similar motif–has been a thread woven through the history of chamber music composition from the end of the 18th century to the present...

---I think Benmont meant the way the band responded to each other musically, knowing when to leave space and when to fill it. They seem to do it all across their Stan albums and less so, or less noticeably so as they go as a band. I think this interaction is why there's so much of a certain TPATH sound to their early records versus later ones. 

cheers

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Like the ride-out of "You Got Lucky" - Mike and Benmont are playing that chord sequence in a call-and-response to each other, but it's the way in which they do it that sounds like it's a conversation, and then you have Stan and Howie creating a backdrop for them to do so.  When I first heard Benmont make that comment in the Classic Albums program, it's the first thing I thought of.

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On 8/5/2018 at 11:36 AM, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

 From wikipedia:

Most broadly, it includes any art music that is performed by a small number of performers, with one performer to a part (in contrast to orchestral music, in which each string part is played by a number of performers). However, by convention, it usually does not include solo instrument performances.

Because of its intimate nature, chamber music has been described as "the music of friends".[1] For more than 100 years, chamber music was played primarily by amateur musicians in their homes, and even today, when chamber music performance has migrated from the home to the concert hall, many musicians, amateur and professional, still play chamber music for their own pleasure. Playing chamber music requires special skills, both musical and social, that differ from the skills required for playing solo or symphonic works.[2]

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe described chamber music (specifically, string quartet music) as "four rational people conversing".[3] This conversational paradigm–which refers to the way one instrument introduces a melody or motif and then other instruments subsequently "respond" with a similar motif–has been a thread woven through the history of chamber music composition from the end of the 18th century to the present...

---I think Benmont meant the way the band responded to each other musically, knowing when to leave space and when to fill it. They seem to do it all across their Stan albums and less so, or less noticeably so as they go as a band. I think this interaction is why there's so much of a certain TPATH sound to their early records versus later ones. 

cheers

I see, thanks for the clarification! I was thinking of string quartets, the kind Beethoven wrote, sorry. Benmont knows what he's talking about! Of course!

The comparison makes a whole lot of sense.

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