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GvilleCharlie

Wanna See a REALLY RARE Mudcrutch Poster? Check THIS Out! 1972!

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I thought you folks might be interested in this ORIGINAL Mudcrutch Concert Poster from 1972. I just listed this on Ebay (yes, I am the seller) and there is a bit of interesting Mudcrutch / Tom Petty info in the description. Hope you enjoy it!

. . . Charlie

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-MUDCRUTCH-TOM-PETTY-Concert-Poster-from-1972_W0QQitemZ250265070053QQihZ015QQcategoryZ85996QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Why am I selling it? Well, why does anyone sell something like this? I need gas money!

Seriously, with all the interest in Mudcrutch since the reformation of the group and the release of the album, I thought it might be a good time to see if there was any interest in this. Mostly I'm just curious to see what it might be worth. And, as I stated, I do have a few more of them, so it's not like I'm selling the last one I have.

Why no Paypal?

Dude, have you READ the Paypal User Agreement? Scary shit! :eek:

Maybe old hippies like myself are just less trusting of the motives of Corporate America. But Paypal does some things that I find highly intrusive. And it's gotten worse since Ebay bought Paypal and and now they do everything they can to force Paypal on Ebay users. Want examples?

As I mentioned, I couldn't even list this poster for sale without signing up for Paypal. Apparently that's a new addition to the Ebay rules. It was not the case the last time I sold an item, which was about a year ago. And I couldn't just get a regular Paypal account, I had to get a 'Premier' account. And it doesn't just affect sellers. I'm mostly a buyer on Ebay. I collect and restore vintage stereo gear (as a hobby) and I was recently prevented from bidding on an item because I didn't have Paypal, despite the fact that the seller accepted Cashier's Checks and Money Orders also and they were listed as acceptable payments. When I listed this poster I found out why this happened. There is a box on the listing form which is prechecked (you have to uncheck it) that restricts bidding to buyers who have a Paypal account. In that case the policy not only prevented me from bidding and potentially winning an item, but it also hurt the seller. At the very least he would have gotten slightly more for the item. But he potentially lost out on quite a bit more money. The item sold for about $16 and the bid I was trying to enter was $90 so, depending on what the other bidder's maximum bid actually was, the seller lost out too. If his maximum was higher than my attempted bid, the seller would have gotten $91 instead of $16. It's a lose - lose situation. Ironically, Ebay lost out too because they could have collected a higher 'final value fee' but they have obviously done the math and concluded that they will make more by forcing everyone to use Paypal. Then they collect not only a 'final value fee' but also a Paypal fee.

In fact, Ebay essentially tries to hide your ability to even list the option of other payments. When you list something for sale now you are given a 'streamlined' form to fill out. It doesn't even give you the option of listing Cashier's Check and Money Order as a payment method. In order to do this, you have to scroll waaay down and find a link that directs you to a listing form with more options. Sneaky! Yes, but intrusive??

Here's how they are intrusive . . . When you get Paypal it gives you the ability to pay with your credit card without giving your card number to each seller. Paypal acts as a go-between. Sounds pretty good, right. It's convenient and safe. If that's all it was it would be great. But, if you use Paypal for a while you eventually reach a certain limit. It used to be $1500, I believe. Not sure what it is now. Now normally, I can use my credit card at as many merchants as I like and, as long as my card is not maxed out, I can keep using it indefinitely since I make payments on it each month. Well, with Paypal, after you have bought a total of $1500 worth of stuff from various sellers with no problems, you can no longer continue to use Paypal unless you become 'Verified'. You've established yourself as a reliable buyer but you are told that you can no longer use their service. Huh? :confused:

There are two ways you can get 'verified'. One is by applying for a Paypal Credit Card. You have established yourself as a regular user, now they can well, not exactly FORCE, but strongly encourage you to shift your credit card usage (at least when you use Paypal and perhaps other purchases too) to a something they will get additional profit from. Using their card becomes the path of least resistance. Pretty shrewd. But even if you don't use it much, they can profit by selling your information to others. Read their 'privacy statement'. When you sign up you are given the option of choosing NOT to let them share your information with outside companies they are 'affiliated' with. ('Affiliated' means they have a contract with another company to sell them information) OK, so you can choose not to allow this. How do you make this choice? Well, you can't just check a box on your application, you have to call a toll free number or write to a PO Box and request this. But this is done AFTER you have applied for a card and given out your information. And the agreement states that it takes 30 days for them to activate this order to stop giving out your information AND that, even after they have activated the order, the information that was already sold to others can be used by them in future indefinitely. Of course, over and over again they remind you that the whole purpose of Paypal is to offer you more safety and security. Right.

But here's the topper! The other way to get 'verified' so you can continue to use their service and feel more secure is to link your credit card to your bank account. This what led me to stop using Paypal some years ago when I had an earlier account. When you give them your bank account information, you are actually giving them the right to access your account. They can transfer money into and OUT OF your account without having to notify you ahead of time. You give them blanket approval to do so. And this does not only apply to your checking account but also to any SAVINGS account which is linked to your checking account. So in order to buy things with your (existing) credit card, you give them this access. Well, I've used my credit card with a large variety of merchants over the years and not one of them has demanded direct access to my bank account in order to pay for something with a credit card. THAT is intrusive in my book. :077:

Think that none of this really matters? Do a search for anti-Paypal and anti-Ebay websites and you'll read a wide array of horror stories. While I haven't had any problems with my limited use of it, some years ago I did buy an item from a reputable Ebay seller using Paypal. He only received a small part of what I paid him because of a frivolous claim by a previous buyer. I talked to the guy on the phone and I firmly believe that he was a straight-shooter. Most of the money I sent was removed from his account by Paypal. He was in the process of closing his Paypal account because he had gotten nothing but a runaround from Paypal when he tried to straighten out the problem and they completely ignored evidence he submitted to them. Unfortunately he had not removed the logo from his website before I used it. I felt bad but what could I do. :085:

So trust Corporate America if you like. Hey, I seem to recall that Tom Petty has expressed a similar point of view as a result of his dealing with record companies and others . . . "I Won't Back Down" and "Last DJ" and maybe some others.

. . . Charlie

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Damn, Charlie you really took us to school this morning, lol. I must say, I have never trusted Paypal. I had a problem with them once a few years ago. The seller swore she never received my Paypal payment. She and I went round and round with Paypal for weeks. Finally, after much hullabaloo, out of the blue they paid her and that was after I'd already sent her a money order as payment. Yes, I trusted her and you know what, she sent me my money back. I stepped out on faith and she was an honest woman. So that's how I know it was Paypal BS. After that I never used them again for a long time until recently when purchasing an item I didn't have a choice.

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I got verified very easily.. with a letter sent to my home I believe. And I don't think I have limited use... Never had an issue.

Same here. I've used it for years, have sold & bought tons of things on ebay & never had an issue regarding PayPal, not once.

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Well, I'm glad at least some of you haven't had any problems. I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion of Paypal but you DID ask so I felt obligated to explain my position. I think it's fascinating how the corporate mentality operates.

It'll be interesting to see what sort of response I get from the auction. But I suppose that it's obvious that one of my motivations was also to inject some editorial comment on some of the stories about the early days of Mudcrutch / TPATH which have essentially entered into the realm of LEGEND at this point . . . and to hopefully add a few more details about their early days in Gainesville which don't seem to be generally known.

I was going to post something on their official sites (both Mudcrutch and TPATH) but since I have this listed for sale it's a violation of policy so maybe someone there will pick up on it.

I actually have one other Mudcrutch poster, which also ties in with a bit of Gainesville history. I've only got one copy though. It was for a benefit concert which the Rose organized to help pay for the legal defense of the Gainesville Eight - a group of mostly Vietnam Vets who were charged with conspiracy to disrupt the Republican National Convention in 1972. It was a major national trial. (Try Google for more details) They played along with the infamous RGF (Real Good Fuck), which was the band Ron Blair was in before he joined Road Turkey. Famed defense lawyer William Kunstler also spoke. They played on Friday and two other bands, Celebration and Outlaw, played Saturday.

Incidentally, Mike Campbell lived upstairs in a house he shared with some (all?) of the members of Celebration - or maybe it was Tom who lived there - I'm not sure which actually. I remember going there one day to talk to the guys in Celebration about a gig and ended up hanging out upstairs listening to Tom and Mike jamming on some acoustic country stuff.

. . . Charlie

Edited by GvilleCharlie

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I'm with ya, Charlie, I hate Pay Pal. My ex-boss preferred to lose the sales rather than have to deal with the hassle. I've never used e-bay anyway, so I have no other reason to have a Pay Pal account, and it has never been a problem.

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How many do you have Charlie, are they paper or cardboard? Did you have them printed yourself back in 72? would like it but not if there are hundreds that are going to start dribbling in. Sorry for so many questions.

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No Problem. The poster is just on regular paper, not cardboard. I didn't personally print them myself or on my personal behalf. The Rose had posters designed and printed for all the various shows. These events included occasional free shows around the University of Florida campus (usually outside one of the dorms), the regular shows in the University Auditorium (admission to those was usually 50ยข to $1), and the Halloween Masquerade Ball. Posters for the other events were simpler and smaller. They were just black ink on regular 8 1/2" x 11" colored paper. The Halloween Ball posters were larger and we used more than one color. This was our primary (and usually only) means of advertising the shows. During the week before a show we (usually myself and Bruce Nearon who was the Rose founder and my roommate) would walk all around campus and areas around town where we figured the fans would go and put up posters. Posters were stapled on bulletin boards but mostly taped on metal utility poles, sides of buildings, put up in stores and restaurants, etc. This was an ongoing and time consuming process since we put numerous posters in and around every major building on campus. We especially targeted the dorms. We'd walk through every floor and put up posters. This was before security concerns that resulted in dorm floors being locked. I don't know exactly how many were printed for this event but it seems we used to have 500 - 1000 printed for shows at the Auditorium so I would guess that 1500 or so of these might have been printed. Perhaps it was less since they were quite a bit more expensive than our regular posters. Since this was the biggest event of the year we put up Halloween posters for at least 2 weeks before the show and we would go through many buildings twice to replace posters that had fallen or been taken down. Oh, and these are NOT photocopies, they were printed by a professional printing company, as were all of our posters. (Were photocopiers even around back then? I don't remember.) Usually all the posters were put up before the event but we must have run out of time before the show and I ended up a few extras. There are not hundreds of these. I probably have about 20 and, as I mentioned in the description, I don't plan to auction more at this point. That's why I will also include a notarized statement concerning the authenticity of the poster. If the buyer resells it at some point, I would expect they would also include the signed, notarized statement. If you start seeing a bunch of these then they will be copies. As for other original copies, I'm sure Bruce Nearon has one or two since he kept one or two posters from many of our shows. And, of course, it's possible that someone who attended the event pulled one off a bulletin board and kept it as a memento. The only other original copy I know to exist is one I gave to Marty Jourard, one of the members of Road Turkey (who was later in the band The Motels), when he visited Gainesville a couple of years ago. Hope that answers your questions.

. . . Charlie

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Well, here's a 'back in the day' bit of trivia that's sorta related to Mudcruch (sorta) . . .

The first time I met Tom Petty was at the Moose Club in Gainesville. I think it was probably around 1965. The Moose Club held teen dances and I went down there to hear a band that had just gotten a lot of attention in town and had a single out that was being played on the local radio station, WGGG. This was AM radio, of course, FM rock / pop / top 40 didn't really exist at that time (at least in Gville). The band was called The Maundy Quintet and one reason they were getting airplay (besides the fact that they were an excellent band) was likely because the drummer, who was known as 'Boomer', was a DJ at WGGG. Some of the other guys in the band were students at Gainesville High School (or maybe recent graduates??).

So I was standing at the edge of the stage as they were getting ready to start their set when a kid standing next to me leans over and proudly tells me that one of the guitar players is his big brother. The kid was Tommy Leadon and his big brother, of course, is Bernie Leadon who later played with Dillard & Clark, Linda Ronstadt, The Flying Burrito Brothers, and the Eagles. The other guitar player in the band was Don Felder, who also ended up in the Eagles after a while. Did he replace Bernie? I think so. Anyway, after telling me this he introduced me to the guy standing next to him, a skinny, goofy looking blond kid named Tommy Petty.

We went to different Jr. High Schools at the time so I hadn't met these guys before but of course later I'd run into them regularly in the course of going out to hear live bands around Gainesville. Not long afterwards they started playing gigs themselves.

. . . Charlie

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Thank you Charlie. And not just for the too cool poster. For being a part of history. You were a bigger part of this whole deal than anybody really realizes, you were there from the start and really boosted Tom's Petty's career, and very modestly have not asked for any self grandization or self publicity. I agree the Rose community should have had a part in the film.

A good guy.

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Well, since you guys enjoy the stories here's another one . . .

I went to Gainesville High School, just as Tom did, but he's a year older than me so I didn't have any academic classes with him. At one point, however, we were in the same PE class. One day he was using the locker next to mine and I noticed him putting something into the pocket of his jeans. I asked him what it was and he showed me a little spray can of 'mace'. I asked him why he was carrying 'mace' and he said that some of the rednecks at school regularly threatened to beat him up because he had long hair! At that time, this would have been around 1967 or 68, long hair was not allowed. Tom had been given special dispensation on the long hair rule because he was in a band (the Sundowners or the Epics - not sure which at that point) and it was considered some sort of occupational requirement or something. In fact, they tried to suspend me in 1969 because my hair was over the collar of my shirt. Well, you can imagine my reaction when the first Heartbreakers album was released. Here was Tom on the cover dressed in a black leather jacket! It seemed like the record company was trying to make him look like some kind of 'tough guy' or juvenile delinquent. Of course that was far from the truth - which might explain why he has that goofy grin on his face. I laughed like hell when I saw that picture. I bet all the rednecks who were threatening him now claim to have been his buddies too.

. . . Charlie

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^ thanks for the posts Charlie - I've always known that this all happened when everyone was so young, but the high school stories make it much more real... so hard to believe there was so much talent in that town at such a very young age.

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