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Dezi

TP’s family telling Trump to go to hell

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40 minutes ago, nurktwin said:

This forum started 20 years ago with a "BANG" and it should go out with a "BANG".

How about this forum goes out with some dignity and respect for each other regardless of political stance.

31 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I realize that some people don't want to hear a viewpoint that disagrees with what they've been told to believe. 

True enough, sad to say.

6 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

If you're going to quote the band's lyrics on the band's fan-page, please do try to get them right. 

Let's not quibble here. Whether or not one agress, Drew has engaged in interesting discussion on this site.

7 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

By they way, I have reported this thread, as it's getting horrible.  

True enough.

cheers

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5 minutes ago, nurktwin said:

Funny isn't it, no reactions on this site for months. Then I bitch and rant and everyone comes out of the woodwork and livens up the site.

There's been some posting on this site, let alone attempts at discussion over the past couple months. I think people might come out of the woodwork to avoid the carpenter ants. And because the site is going away.

cheers

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36 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:
1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

As TP himself said though "You believe what you want to believe.. everybody's had to fight to be free". 

Correction:

  • Everybody's got to fight to be free.  Present and future tense. Interesting.  Dynamic.  Potentially personal.  The lyrics in the song.
  • Everybody's had to fight to be free.  Past tense.  Over & done with.   

If you're going to quote the band's lyrics on the band's fan-page, please do try to get them right.

Actually, it is "had".  Check the part at 1:14 or so of the official video:

 

 

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I definitely don't want to feed the trolls.  Now you're talking music, though, okay.  But only if it's pleasant conversation.  

Yes,  uh, huh, I already checked the original source material before I posted. Those lyrics sure sounds like present & future tense to me.  Every time TP saunters down that stairwell.  

Happy to invite others to share their opinions.

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3 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

Yes,  uh, huh, I already checked the original source material before I posted. Those lyrics sure sounds like present & future tense to me.  Every time TP saunters down that stairwell.

Then you need to check your hearing, because Tom clearly sings had (in Refugee), not got.  It's also listed in online lyrics websites as "had", but I thought you should hear it directly from Tom's mouth.  Funny how you are still hearing it as "got", even when you play the recording right now.  That's some kind of dedication to a distorted reality, though no surprise given your political comments.  And funny that you would make a big deal of "correcting" me, when you were the one who actually got it wrong.   

I guess that emotionally, TP's line is "got" to you, even though factually it is had.  Likewise that's the problem with politics today, too many people are relying on emotion rather than facts.  People can enjoy music however they want; if they want to pretend they heard something that the singer didn't actually sing, there's no harm done.  But when there's voting involved, there is harm in putting emotion over reality.  Go ahead and enjoy your emotional beliefs but please try to learn the actual facts before voting, since it affects all of us.  Thanks in advance.  

 

 

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Guys. Tom was political. He marched in the very first Pride parade in his hometown of Gainesville. When he heard the KKK would be there counter protesting, he showed up to be a symbol of support for the community. He said he “got chills” when Obama used the same song his estate just told Trump he couldn’t. For fans, a lot of you don’t seem to know anything about the guy. The article was spot on. 
 

Anyone saying otherwise probably thinks Rebels is a southern anthem instead of the critique on southern men it actually was. 

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17 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I agree - "Dezi" is obviously not a Tom Petty fan, he's bringing political tripe to a music forum.   

Hi. Tom Petty’s family made a political statement. This article and my post didn’t come out of nowhere. 

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18 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

I have asked you repeatedly to stop talking politics in a music forum.  Goodbye.

Right, I heard you the first few times, but I chose to ignore your request.  I will continue to ignore your requests as I see fit, there's no need to repeat them.  I'm not for politics on this forum either, but when initiated by someone else - as these were -  I might chose to respond to the political discussion (again, that was started by others), that's up to me, not you. 

This entire thread is political, started by someone who only created their profile in order to make a political statement, and in order to post a link of remarkable left-wing hatred and lies.  Hypocritically, you didn't complain about "Dezi" posting political views here, and you never will.  That's because you aren't actually against political statements on a music forum, what you are actually against is posting a political view that disagrees with your own.  Very inconsistent if you are in fact against political views on a music forum, very consistent if you just want to silence voices that challenge your established views.  

Furthermore, you absurdly accused me of getting the lyrics to Refugee wrong, and you wanted to chide me for it.  When confronted with the reality that YOU'D actually gotten the lyrics wrong, you pretended that wasn't the case. Which combined with your lie about being "against political discussions on a music forum" you are almost certainly the most dishonest poster here.  Congrats!    

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On 6/22/2020 at 4:16 PM, Big Blue Sky said:
On 6/22/2020 at 12:08 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

That being said, that article is outrageously left-wing when it claims that Trump & company have tried to make the USA a hell-hole for everyone who doesn't look like him. 

Yes. They. Have. Tried. To. 

Ok BBS, please give examples of how "they" have tried to make the USA a hell-hole for those who don't look like them, during the current federal administration. 

Just. Stating. Lies. In. One. Word. Sentences. Does. Not. Make. Lies. True.   

You. Need. To. Give. Actual. Examples. 

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49 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I'm not for politics on this forum either, but when initiated by someone else - as these were -  I might chose to respond to the political discussion (again, that was started by others), that's up to me, not you.........

This entire thread is political..........

 

Yes you do have the right. This forum isn't political despite Tom's apparent left leaning politics if that's indeed where he stood. I think as long as people can be civil towards each other, political disagreements are fine. Of course the final call is Ryan/Mudcrutch's.

I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican; I think this strict adherence to political party is part of the reason so many things are wrong in this country in addition to the corruption infesting government. 

cheers

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58 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:This entire thread is political, started by someone who only created their profile in order to make a political statement, and in order to post a link of remarkable left-wing hatred and lies.  Hypocritically, you didn't complain about "Dezi" posting political views here, and you never will.  That's because you aren't actually against political statements on a music forum, what you are actually against is posting a political view that disagrees with your own.  Very inconsistent if you are in fact against political views on a music forum, very consistent if you just want to silence voices that challenge your established views.  

I stand by what the article I originally posted said. And I stand by what Petty’s family said on his behalf. I didn’t start this thread out of nowhere. I posted it in response to the widely covered news of Perry’s cease and desist letter. Read the article, man. Petty was always a dem and just because you’re uncomfortable with it doesn’t change the facts. If you don’t know this, you don’t know Tom. Or frankly, rock n roll. 

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1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

This entire thread is political

 

15 minutes ago, Dezi said:

Petty was always a dem and just because you’re uncomfortable with it doesn’t change the facts. If you don’t know this, you don’t know Tom. Or frankly, rock n roll.

The only Republican or maybe more properly conservative I know of in rock was Johnny Ramone. Maybe Frank Zappa too, I don't know. But, music is enjoyed by people of all political persuasions, and also, none of us here truly knew Tom. No need for condescension towards Drew. I think it takes guts to be a conservative on a rock-n-roll forum if that is indeed what Drew is, I really don't know.

ciao

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12 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

No need for condescension towards Drew. I think it takes guts to be a conservative on a rock-n-roll forum if that is indeed what Drew is, I really don't know.

Thank you.  I have political views but I too am here for discussions of Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, not politics.  My own views are strongly pro-freedom, and I hear a lot of that view in Petty's songs, though that's far from the only reason I enjoy his/their songs.  Politically I am closest to libertarian, though I do believe we need reasonable regulations on things like food safety, worker safety, pollution control, etc., which purist libertarians are apparently against.  

What I don't like seeing are unsupportable political statements claiming that the US government is trying to make the country hell for non-white citizens.  Or that someone is "deplorable" for holding a political view that doesn't correspond to the views of a writer.  Both of those points were made in the column (linked by "Dezi") which purported to be about Tom Petty.  It's too bad that someone would attribute an opinion to Tom Petty about a situation nearly 3 years after his death, but I don't think he'd call other Americans "deplorable" for being what they feel is pro-America.  

I also don't like being told that I can't respond to someone else's political statements, simply because I disagree with those political statements and feel that some balance should be offered against what I feel is a highly distorted and highly partisan opinion.   That's an attempt at bullying and silencing, and again I doubt that Petty himself would have been in favor of bullying and silencing.  I don't recall that he wrote any songs with titles like "Sit down and shut up", or "It's my way or the highway".   

Just a guess though, none of us really know what Petty would say today.  Including the author of that piece and some posters here, who seem to claim they know exactly what Tom would have said or done in the current situation.  Would Petty have told Trump to stop using his songs?  Almost certainly.  Would he have called half his fellow Americans "deplorable" and agreed that life was "hell" in the USA for non-white citizens?  I don't think so, but all we can do now is enjoy the songs and music he made.  

  

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39 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I do believe we need reasonable regulations on things like food safety, worker safety, pollution control, etc., which purist libertarians are apparently against.

I agree and think we also need some social support systems as well; even if let's say 50% of people are scamming the system, the other half legitimately need help, sometimes people fall on hard times, bad luck and I think a healthy, moral society has systems in place to help them.

Kinda surprising to see a political argument break out on the forum at this point; personally I'd rather discuss the music though I think I've said all I have on TPATH at this point.

cheers

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This IS a music site and that's great. It just happens that this 1 topic is political out of many and that's not all bad either. Too many people pick out 1 of 1000 things and go crazy over it and forget all the good that is here, there and everywhere. It's no different on your nightly news, they show the bad and ignore the good. THAT is what this country has become the past few years and I don't like it, so I speak my mind about it, while I'm still able to have the right to speak!

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On 6/22/2020 at 5:48 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

Seriously, you believe that?  That's just sad.  The press has divided the country, not DT.  Am I a big DT fan, no I'm am not.  But I certainly don't want AOC's party to turn the USA into Venezuela or North Korea.  America is that home of the free, not the freeloaders.  

Unemployment went to record lows during Trump's term.  Personal income rose strongly for everyone, not just the rich. The virus and gubernatorial shutdowns caused unemployment to rise, not DT.  The virus and the media were big factors in the riots.  The media has caused huge divisions in the USA, for political reasons.  You are blind if you think the media is giving you an unbiased portrait of America. 

By the way, Tom Petty was in the 1% - do you hate him for that?  He worked hard and created something of value, and he was rewarded monetarily for that.  That's not a crime in my book.  He didn't force anyone to listen to his music or pay him anything.  Sorry to see that some people hate the free market.   

 

AOC's party? Since when has she taken over the  party to shift it from the neoliberalistic policy that has been going on since the Carter administration and have a truly progressive platform become the platform of the Democratic Party? Because in case you haven't seen the news, Joe Biden, from that same neoliberal ilk of the majority of that caucus since the 70s got the nomination.

Also, you and others say things like socialism and communism, I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. And when you say where did I say that, you brought NK and Venezuela to the party.

And it's pretty fucking hard to raise yourself by your bootstraps when you don't have any boots you twit

 

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On 6/23/2020 at 10:03 PM, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

 

The only Republican or maybe more properly conservative I know of in rock was Johnny Ramone. Maybe Frank Zappa too, I don't know. But, music is enjoyed by people of all political persuasions, and also, none of us here truly knew Tom. No need for condescension towards Drew. I think it takes guts to be a conservative on a rock-n-roll forum if that is indeed what Drew is, I really don't know.

ciao

It takes guts because they like to say how they like their music but never bothered to listen to the lyrics so when the likes of Michael Stipe or Tom Morrello say something political they get pissed off. I always laugh when people say they like REM or Drive-By Truckers or Rage Against the Machine until they got political. They always were, you just ignored it.

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4 hours ago, martin03345 said:

It takes guts because they like to say how they like their music but never bothered to listen to the lyrics so when the likes of Michael Stipe or Tom Morrello say something political they get pissed off. I always laugh when people say they like REM or Drive-By Truckers or Rage Against the Machine until they got political. They always were, you just ignored it.

Yes, agree Martin!  Look at Benmont's social media for an insight into the man's values.  Tom Morello is hilariously assertive when his fans who tell him to shut up and play music. 

It's not just the content in this thread - it's the level of aggression & name calling & accusations in this thread that is so very horrible.  Trying to drag people into arguments, for goodness sakes.  Frankly, that's 100% inconsistent with the tone of the rest of this on-line community - which has always been a safe place, as we all know.  I only return for this one comment.  What's communication? Is it more than defending your own right to speak?  Is it also about engaging others and having ongoing conversations?  As Ruth Bader Ginsberg so famously said: fight for the things you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you.  

A good friend in the US has said it's been getting nastier there, with extremists popping up and ranting & yet claiming to be victims themselves. That often you just have to walk away.  That friends have had to go separate ways.  I have always thought: Surely not, not with our lovely community in Mudcrutch Farm.  It will never come to that there.  We are always going to be better than that.  

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Sometimes people think de-escalating a situation is easy as saying hey, now, everyone's said some things they may regret and everyone's slightly to blame.  

What's really fascinating is when we realise clearly that sometimes the source of drama can indeed be coming from just one or two people.  In that case, other members in a community often use classic non-violent techniques - whether they realise it or not - by assertively resisting and challenging that dramatic disruption.  People who choose not to be a silent bystander.  As a people, we know what's reasonable, what's morally acceptable, what's ethically okay.  As humans, we do recognise truth.  We just do.  These are all completely legitimate reactions to the emergence of an unpleasant & disruptive force.  In fact, people who resist and challenge deserve to be applauded and thanked.  Peace-building is  long-term process and it's incredibly rewarding.  People are often open to change - and diverse communities can become increasingly supportive and generous, while simply not accepting any negative disruption.  

Alas, sometimes, it's not about arguing or changing disruptive people's minds in the here & now.  For some reason - best known to themselves - some people's preferred worldview makes sense to them.   They'll cling to one or two reasonable values (ie freedom of speech) and try to justify all the rest of it based on that.  They can be accidentally strengthened  by others, especially those who try to help out with good intentions (with the hey, now approach mentioned above) yet end up enabling them.  They aren't necessarily open to 5 lines of articulate reasoning in the here and the now, even if Nelson Mandela or MLK popped in to help out.  Surprisingly, that isn't necessarily going to change their mind - or they're not going to admit to beginning to changing their mind.  Instead, they often change tack and keep trying to escalate - all in the hope of getting attention & a reaction, any reaction.   

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