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MaryJanes2ndLastDance

TPATH Jones Beach June 21, 2005

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14 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

A couple of songs that I liked a lot with the full band, but not very much as "acoustic" versions, were Rebels and Dogs on the Run.  Those songs were meant to rock, IMO.  But after 1989 or so, I don't think they did Rebels except acoustically,

Sporadically throughout the 2008 tour they did a full band version. They moved it from key of C to key of G:

 

 

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1 hour ago, mikemono said:

You're very kind, but I am not the mastermind behind Live Petty. I do upload torrents on sites that that site creator does wind up posting, though.

Ah well, noted! Then kudos to the site master, perhaps it's Cameron and I've confused you two...?

Regardless, what a resource for the Tom Petty fans.

44 minutes ago, mikemono said:

Sporadically throughout the 2008 tour they did a full band version. They moved it from key of C to key of G:

Thanks, I didn't know that. I've never been a big fan of the song, it seemed to me like a poor man's Refugee, even the way it begins, instruments slowly joining in seems like an attempt at pulling off another Refugee. Sometimes I like it, sometimes not. At this point, it's refreshing to hear in contrast to a lot of live TPATH. This version is a bit more to my liking, faster tempo, a bit more energy with an inspired Mike solo; he takes the end of it in some surprising directions. Glad they pulled it out, electric no less. 

What do you think Drew? I'd be surprised if you liked this approach or at least, if you liked Steve's drums here. As Benmont noted, he led the band for sure; quite the contrast to the studio version and the Plantation tour.

cheers

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Ah well, noted! Then kudos to the site master, perhaps it's Cameron and I've confused you two...?

Not Cameron either, haha. He's an active bootlegger but not the Live Petty mastermind! That guy goes under the alias "MoneyBecomesKing" on his blog and other bootlegging sites.

I truly like this "Rebels" version in G! My fav version of the song has to be the American Treasure remake, though. And the 2013-2014 acoustic version is quite great, IMO.

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12 hours ago, Mr Timba said:

Same reason I guess, it doesn't work live.

To me those songs mentioned all worked live. Splendidly well, even. As for TGTBT, that one, in my book, was one of the best ever. It was always high on my list of songs I wished they'd revisit. Too bad they never did. Not good enough?As it turns out it was too good to be true.

 

11 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I just think it fell away, same with Out in the Cold etc. as most new album songs did once their initial tour was over.

"Most album songs" as in most albums songs that got played at all, that is. Let's not kid ourselves. Most album songs were not featured as a set piece even on their "initial tour". Quite a few of them were never played at all.*  

As for OITC, I personally feel that while the song was a bit of rollicking roll on that premiere tour, in the long run it's not one of the stronger compositions. After all, it got undeservingly much attention there initially (overshadowing -arguably- stronger new material like Dark Of The Sun, You And I Will Meet Again and All Or Nothing), so personally I don't blame them for not keeping that one one. Sure, they could have revisit it sometime as a one-off, but to me there are a lot better songs down the years that has gotten a lot less stage time. Just saying. 

 

 

-----

*If they actually had played all or most songs frequently when touring each new album, that would've made each and every tour very special and essential.

 

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17 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

There was a recent interview with Ron Blair, where he noted that modern producers often want to "fix" the instrumentation by lining them up to be precisely on the beat, and Ron suggested that they not do that - and he even suggested that this is why modern recordings don't sound very good. 

I don't understand that either, a lot of character is from the human element, that could even include playing through the song with a broken string, being a bit off with the beat and so on...using technology to "fix" that is a mistake as it removes something essential and irreplaceable.

17 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

In the days where Stan was the drummer, Ron or Howie seemed to keep the beat via the bass, while Stan's drumming was generally off the beat.  That gave room for all to be heard.  Steve's precisely-on-the-beat drumming tended to stifle the bass, as well as much of the singing and the keyboards.   So precision is not always a positive factor, despite the Stan-disparaging comments from Jimmy Iovine.

I understand why Steve's drumming sounds off to you; that pretty much nails it.

As for Iovine, it did seem like he had some antagonism towards Stan. On one of those making-of videos they explain how they tuned his drum so there was no snap back, that's a pretty big adjustment for a drummer to make, let alone when he lingers behind the beat. That alone could've been a factor in the perceived negative opinion of his drumming. Who knows, none of us were there but I give credit that Stan persevered and Tom knew he better than to let Iovine fire Stan.

cheers

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2 hours ago, Shelter said:

As for TGTBT, that one, in my book, was one of the best ever. It was always high on my list of songs I wished they'd revisit.

There was a lot of untapped potential in that song for concerts beyond ITGWO. Though I suppose I'm just glad it was a mainstay of that tour. 

2 hours ago, Shelter said:

As for OITC, I personally feel that while the song was a bit of rollicking roll on that premiere tour, in the long run it's not one of the stronger compositions......... Sure, they could have revisit it sometime as a one-off, but to me there are a lot better songs down the years that has gotten a lot less stage time. Just saying.

I agree; I go back and forth on OITC, sometimes I'm in the mood for it, sometimes there's just something too constrictive about the song and a bit repetitive, nearly like another version of Love is A Long Road though that song definitely feels like it plays through and repeats. I guess that's most rock songs. I don't know, maybe the riff isn't interesting enough on its own, it almost feels like they needed a fast song and that's what they came up with; I'm guessing not but that's how it sounds.

The one part where Stan sings and it gets heavier though pretty much powers the song in my opinion.

But anyway yes, aside from the travesty of skipping You And I Will Meet Again, that they dropped All or Nothin' so quickly from the set is pretty huge. That's another one, could've added a powerhouse slide solo during the outro, kept that heavy groove going for another three minutes.

Surely more people heard ITGWO as a whole than later albums; and it predates GH, so people had to figure they'd be getting a healthy dose of new songs in addition to past singles and such. Can I tell you how good this coffee is right now that I'm drinking. I can and I did. It is good. 

Anyway, that song could've grown into something spectacular live. I figure it was too "out there" or slow moving and the perception was it became a beer-line song. That seems to be the usual barometer why a song drops, audience disinterest as musically from the one version I've heard, while they don't capture the expansive heaviness of the album, its performed just fine.

Glad I was there for when I saw them during the ITGWO tour when American Girl wasn't the big show stopping finish but rather a tender acoustic nod to the 70s.

cheers

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16 hours ago, mikemono said:

Sporadically throughout the 2008 tour they did a full band version. They moved it from key of C to key of G:

Thanks Mike, I didn't realize that they did a full band version of Rebels a few times in 2008.   I think Rebels is one of their best songs (I think virually all their songs are good, but I'd put Rebels in their top 20), and I think the live version you highlighted sounds great (especially for an amateur video).  Steve's drumming there sounds great too; he could vary it a little more between the soft and loud parts, but otherwise very well done, and not an imitation of the studio version or prior live takes.  I like that he's using the cymbals more and the bass drum less, which seemed to be improvements (IMO) that he started making after the 2005 tour.  

By the way, I'm sure you all know this, but Rebels is about a character, not Tom himself.  Even though Tom was born in Dixie and arguably born a rebel.   But Tom has explained that the character in his song  is someone who blames his personal problems/status on the "Yankees", something that Tom himself didn't feel.  Also Tom was not born on a Sunday, to further clarify that the song is not fully about himself (he was born on a Friday).  

Also - I agree that the American Treasure version of Rebels is really good.   I'm not sure if I like it better than the original, I'd rank them as equally good.  Maybe with a few more listens to each I would have a favorite there, but nice to have both versions (plus the live versions).  

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5 hours ago, Shelter said:

*If they actually had played all or most songs frequently when touring each new album, that would've made each and every tour very special and essential.

Yes, absolutely.  How great would that have been?  I also wish they'd done more rotating of older songs into new tours.  They did a lot of that, but too much playing of the same old "greatest hits", not enough reaching back for neglected worthy songs.  I also agree that Too Good To Be True was a great song in a live setting, while Out In The Cold was just fair, not that worthy.  I'm with you that Dark of the Sun, You and I Will Meet Again, and All or Nothin' (for the guitar part) were more worthy of being played.  

But that's the thing about TPATH albums, there are so many great songs that inevitably some very worthy songs didn't get played at all live.  Too many to name here, but on every album (other than the 1st or DTT) there were 1-4 really great songs that never or rarely (maybe 1-3 concerts) got played live, plus of course some worthy songs that didn't even make a proper album.  I often wondered if Tom appreciated how great his own song catalog was.  Sad to lose the man himself, for many reasons, including that so many very worthy songs went unplayed live.  

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13 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Steve's drumming there sounds great too; he could vary it a little more between the soft and loud parts, but otherwise very well done, and not an imitation of the studio version or prior live takes.  I like that he's using the cymbals more and the bass drum less,

Wow! I'm surprised, I figured you wouldn't care for it. Glad you enjoyed it though.

12 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

while Out In The Cold was just fair, not that worthy. 

While my feelings on it go back and forth, overall I still like the song, I'm glad they played it and I think it delivered some needed energy to the set. I think they could've kept it and added another one of the above songs since OITC is only about four minutes I think if that.

13 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I often wondered if Tom appreciated how great his own song catalog was.  Sad to lose the man himself, for many reasons, including that so many very worthy songs went unplayed live.  

By the set lists alone I think it shows he undervalued it or was too humble, self-effacing (?) about the tunes. Didn't Dana make him listen to Echo and he found himself liking it. Of course, maybe there was too much of an emotional attachment to some songs and albums, even negative ones. Didn't they drop Change of Heart because it made them remember the drinking/drugs, Benmont passing out etc. of that tour? So I could see why some tunes didn't get played. But really, there are a lot of good deep cuts that were ignored; a shame but I suppose still good they pulled them out. Who knew they'd ever return to Nightwatchman and When The Time Comes?

cheers

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11 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Didn't they drop Change of Heart because it made them remember the drinking/drugs, Benmont passing out etc. of that tour?

I didn't know about that, but it's possible.  Tom did say something about not liking the Long After Dark album for many years after the tour, because it reminded him of their concerts in Germany where fights broke out in the audience.  At the time Long After Dark was made, however, Tom was happy with it and noted that it was a collection of songs that could be played live. 

What he didn't realize was that Germany in the early 1980's was a strange time where fights apparently broke out any time there was a crowd, regardless of the music or the event.  U2 had a concert in the early 80's where they kept stopping the concert due to fights breaking out, and then refused to come out for their usual encore.  So it wasn't TPATH's music from LAD that was the problem, it was just an odd period for Germany.    TPATH has long had a dedicated and well-behaved fan base in Germany, so it's too bad a few rowdy idiots had to ruin it for the other fans and for TP, in the early 80's.  Tom later listened to LAD and liked it, wondering why he had anything against it, yet he still didn't bring back any of those songs for live performance (other than maybe You Got Lucky, but I don't even think that got much play after the ITGWO tour).  

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7 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Tom was happy with it and noted that it was a collection of songs that could be played live......... later listened to LAD and liked it, wondering why he had anything against it, yet he still didn't bring back any of those songs for live performance (other than maybe You Got Lucky, but I don't even think that got much play after the ITGWO tour).  

I think YGL got played more often but yes, most of that album save for Straight into Darkness was ignored over the years. One of their best records too. Oh well.

ciao

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12 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

other than maybe You Got Lucky

I think this is the best live version of the song; the ending feels like something tacked on, like it doesn't progress naturally from the song but I still love it...! That could've gone on for another five minutes. It's been posted here before but here it is again if you haven't seen it Drew:

 

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On 4/16/2020 at 1:50 AM, mikemono said:

I truly like this "Rebels" version in G! My fav version of the song has to be the American Treasure remake, though. And the 2013-2014 acoustic version is quite great, IMO.

I like the 2013 version of Rebels too, as well as the alternate take on American Treasure 

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9 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I think this is the best live version of the song; the ending feels like something tacked on, like it doesn't progress naturally from the song but I still love it...! That could've gone on for another five minutes. It's been posted here before but here it is again if you haven't seen it Drew:

I agree, possibly the best version of the song.  The ending does feel tacked-on, but it's interesting that they were trying something new.  It doesn't work as nicely as the extended version of King's Road (or some others), but nice try.  The 1991 versions are interesting too, Mike uses a different guitar solo which is more eerie but arguably less musical than this one.  

I have seen this video before, thanks for posting it.  I was well aware of the 8 concluding songs from the 1982 "Us Fest", but the extra 10 songs that appeared 2 years ago on Vevo were a complete surprise.   I had previously assumed that those 8 songs were the only ones filmed or perhaps the only ones played.  Very nice surprise to get the other 10,  And I'm pretty sure I figured out the order in which these songs were played, based on other setlists from that time period, the order on Vevo, as well as other cues such as Mike originally starting off wearing a jacket, then taking it off, Tom taking a sip of water, Tom introducing "two new songs" (presumably You Got Lucky, followed by A One Story Town).      

I would love it if this entire concert video could be officially released.  I don't know who has the rights to it, possibly Steve Wozniak (who organized and paid for the concerts/festival), but then there's also the camera crew and the band itself.  I'm pretty sure this was the order of the songs that night:

American Girl
Listen to her Heart
A Thing About You
Here Comes My Girl
The Waiting
I Need to Know
I’m in Love
Don’t Do Me Like That
Louie, Louie
You Got Lucky
A One Story Town
A Woman in Love
King’s Road
Breakdown 
Refugee
Shout
So You Want to be a Rock and Roll Star
Even the Losers

A great concert from a great time period.  Howie was quite new to the band, I think this was his 2nd or 3rd live performance with them.  As such, he focuses on bass and doesn't sing backing vocals; he certainly does a great job on bass.  Phil Jones is there on percussion.  Stan bails out Tom at the end of the concert with the final "even the losers" vocal, after Tom's voice gives out.  Just about a perfect show, for many reasons.  Also I'm pretty sure this was the biggest crowd they ever played for.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Exciting to see footage for the 2005 tour. I saw both shows at the Berkeley Greek Theatre and they were two of the most memorable shows for me form the later years. One reason was the fantastic screen of video windows behind the band. TP said he thought of the design while watching a movie that had the title credits sequenced designed by the great Saul Bass. I just watched Hitchcock's VERTIGO last night and was thinking about the 2005 set during the credits.

Another reason I loved the 2005 shows were setlist rarities. Those were the only times I heard "It'll All Work Out" and "Crawling Back To You" live. There was also a cover of Chuck Berry's "Too Much Monkey Business" and Little Richard's "Rip It Up". And "Melinda" was played every show—my only chance to hear that one live.

The next year they came and played 3 nights at the Greek during the 30th anniversary tour. 5 shows over two summers, all at a venue I could drive home from without having to go through a single stoplight.

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On 4/15/2020 at 3:33 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

IMO Tom went "acoustic" too often on certain songs, and should have brought them back to electric/full band at some point.  I wouldn't say that Learning to Fly and King's Highway worked or didn't work as full band or acoustic, they were just different.  King's Highway for example, sounded great on the 1993 acoustic version (per the Playback boxed set), but it also sounded great with the full band, as the lead off track to the official Take The Highway  video.  Learning to Fly was enjoyable both ways, but it got a bit repetitive to keep hearing it acoustically tour after tour, with the lengthy wooo - ohhhs and crowd interaction.  But after a while, I guess it was expected that way, almost a signature song and signature style of playing it.

A couple of songs that I liked a lot with the full band, but not very much as "acoustic" versions, were Rebels and Dogs on the Run.  Those songs were meant to rock, IMO.  But after 1989 or so, I don't think they did Rebels except acoustically, and I don't think they did Dogs on the Run with the full band after 1985.  I'd love to hear the full length version of Dogs on the Run as performed on the hotel rooftop in St. Petersburg FL, which was shown in excerpts for the MTV Southern Accents special. 

I came across this 1985 show on YouTube, also at Jones Beach, NY. It has the original live version "Dogs on the Run" (not on Pack Up the Plantation) and ts pretty great.

 

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On 4/17/2020 at 1:17 AM, TheSameOldDrew said:

By the way, I'm sure you all know this, but Rebels is about a character, not Tom himself.  Even though Tom was born in Dixie and arguably born a rebel.   But Tom has explained that the character in his song  is someone who blames his personal problems/status on the "Yankees", something that Tom himself didn't feel.  Also Tom was not born on a Sunday, to further clarify that the song is not fully about himself (he was born on a Friday).  

Your level of detail is impressive!  

On 4/19/2020 at 12:40 AM, TheSameOldDrew said:

And I'm pretty sure I figured out the order in which these songs were played, based on other setlists from that time period, the order on Vevo, as well as other cues such as Mike originally starting off wearing a jacket, then taking it off, Tom taking a sip of water, Tom introducing "two new songs" (presumably You Got Lucky, followed by A One Story Town).      

I would love it if this entire concert video could be officially released. 

 

As an aside, personally, I like the slightly ragged / hoarse vocals in Southern Accent's version of Rebels. Thanks to everyone posting other versions too - they're all pretty great.  For me, it fits the character behind the song - that Rebel who's belting out a song at the top of his voice,  regardless of the fact he's not in any fit state to sing anything with immaculate vocals.  (What with being dumped out in the thickets on the way home, hahaha, such a hilarious image).  Given that the band also (somehow) recorded the utterly beautiful Southern Accents & The Best Of Everything (with guest collaboration) on that album - & they reportedly struggled to finish the album at all - I'm just glad they kept the tapes rolling.  

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17 hours ago, peterdimples said:

I came across this 1985 show on YouTube, also at Jones Beach, NY. It has the original live version "Dogs on the Run" (not on Pack Up the Plantation) and ts pretty great.

Nice find Peter.  Dogs on the Run starts at about the 7:00 mark on that video.  I'm especially glad that you listed it, because I have that video on VHS and I was feeling guilty about not converting it to digital (mine is in about the same quality as the youtube one). 

And for those who haven't seen the partial rooftop version of Dogs on the Run (or want to see it again here), it starts below at about the 25:40 mark.  Earlier in the video they also have snippets of Route 66 and Strangered In The Night.  

 

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