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MaryJanes2ndLastDance

Words on the '87 Mansfield Show

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Breakdown---First of all, good sound quality. No no, first of all, thanks to Mikemono for livepetty.com where I downloaded this show again. A live TPATH's ideal site. I like the rollicking thick sound of the drums, and I think I understand why so many people miss Stan as a drummer. Recently I've appreciated behind-the-beat drumming more, whereas before I loved precision with wild fills. Well, I like both. Anyway, whomever recorded this show, did a good job since his drums to my ears, are very potent. Mike (or Tom) has some nice jagged playing in the intro. What I most like is the song goes on a bit without Tom going into his "rap". It's a nice opener with some nice playing by Stan. I don't think Phil Jones was with them on this tour, correct?

I think a lot of their songs would've benefited by a couple minutes here and there added on, like the way they do with this version of Breakdown. It's good groove, power and eases the audience into the show.

Think About Me----Well, this feels like a whole other band at this point, not in performance but in style of the show. Second song and it's a new one! Nice. It's a very bouncy song, nice organ playing too.

More on this as it goes.

American Girl---ha ha ha, third song in.Very bouncy. I guess over the years, aside from Tom's acoustic takes in the early 90s they performed this one the same from tour to tour. Not much to add other than it's interesting seeing it so early in the show, it hadn't quite attained that anthemic status it would over the next couple decades.

My Life/Your World---Another new one and perhaps one of the top three from that album. I really enjoy the groove on this one, it's such a weird song for them. I wonder what it was like for the crowd, did they wonder what the heck is this following American Girl or did they just groove along on alcohol or weed or nothing at all? I'm grooving along to it with my black coffee (non Maxwell House). Some nice but all too short soloing in the outro.

Here Comes My Girl---This just sounds good. Could this be Tom's most romantic song? Well, one of them. A lot of truth in it. And the music just glides along, a very smooth ride, a ballad with motion. The outro playing sounds a bit extended, just a bit. Of course I'd have enjoyed a good three minutes of that jangly outro. Builds to a nice end.

Listen To Her Heart----Some nice fills from Stan. The thing is, either accept TPATH as the band they were in concert or why bother listening to them? This is one of the best TPATH songs in my opinion, yet it was pretty much business as usual live, so...after hearing it so many times, it's y'know, a good song. But it's why the Let Me Up songs sound so vibrant in comparison. High energy ending to this one.

For What It's Worth---I appreciate the sentiments during the intro. But it just goes on too long. I do like the song when they get to it. And a different cover for them I don't know if they ever returned to it after this tour. Not much to say about it. The playing is good, nice lead moments from Mike. But overall this doesn't do much for me. I guess as something different it is all right. The outro is good, nice and heavy for them.

The Waiting---Another really great TPATH song. I like both versions, when they dive right into the song or when they do this type of intro. I really enjoy Tom's strumming, nice clapping from the crowd. Again a lotta truth in the lyrics. I like the false ending, it nearly sounds like Tom is ending the song there before continuing on. I think my favorite version of this though is from the 89 or 90 bootleg N. Carolina I think. But this is good. Maybe held back a bit, the drums sound a bit plodding here for some reason. 

DCAHNM----I like the syncopated drumming at the start and some of Mike's playing. Sounds like the beginnings of the intro for this song that would continue on through the 95 tour where I think they went back to drum intro then extended again in 99 for the Echo tour. I don't know what to say about it. Probably just heard it too much over time. It's still a good song and a unique number for sure. 

But at this point, they don't stretch the outro enough. Probably among other reasons, why my favorite version of this is from the ITGWO tour, since the guys in masks chasing Tom had the band keep playing longer. 

I guess this is the issue with writing something like this, it's a fool's task, as how many times can one say the same thing about the songs that are played so frequently and with such little variation. I guess this is why I listen to so much of the Steve years since they incorporated more of the longer jam songs in their repertoire. Maybe this is too why so many reviews of the Live Anthology centered on the number and quality of the covers. Across their 40 years as a band, there's plenty of one off covers and/or the deep cuts, like the recently revealed Same Old You. Probably why it's good to take some space from listening to them.

It'll All Work Out----This and Runaway Trains to me, are the centerpiece of the record. It's just a lovely song with some truly lovely playing. Nice organ accompaniment from Benmont! This is just one of their very best songs in my opinion and this a lovely version.

Riverflow----Never heard this before. I guess the music and lyrics match well. Nice playing. Not much of an opinion either way. It's different. I suppose I'd pass on this, too bad they didn't fit in Self Made Man or something here. Oh well.

Runaway Trains---I've more to say on this. I've heard the live version of this before and it's good. I prefer it to the too gentle, too 80s synth of the original, from the way it starts, the guitars are heavier, Stan's quick tap on the cowbell, it's a nice build up. This feels like the anthem that wasn't or could've been. I think this is the other half of the core of the record and felt it should've been placed in the middle of the record not as track two. But back to this performance, it's good. It's got power to it. I guess for fans of the original, you either like this take on it and get two different versions or maybe you're disappointed. I hope it's the former. Much like It Ain't Nothin' To Me, one of my faves from Southern Accents had an energized performance, so too with this song, each played on their respective tours and never again. As far as we know.

The main riff from the intro that appears throughout the song is nice and grungy, a good counterpart to the sweeter melodic part. The outro is really good with some nice playing all around, this is peak "chamber music" live, again Stan with some nice fills. I think this and Jammin' Me could be the best parts of this concert/the Let Me Up tour.

At different points in the day I heard this song in my head while doing mundane tasks. I prefer this version to the recorded take, thinking about it now it kinda reminds me of Crawling Back To You, maybe in just the way the song flows but that could be a fleeting notion. For a band that seemed not interested in following trends, they really did so with Let Me Up in terms of the sound or the synthesizers or whatever. And I think the song most impacted (negatively for me, positively for others of course) is Runaway Trains. It reminds me much how I feel Southern Accents would've possibly been improved with a grittier sound, the live version of Runaway Trains is a good example of that. 

By having more crunch in the guitars and less of the 80s gloss, not only does the song rock harder but the melodic parts have more impact. It's definitely an anthemic song that never made it past this tour. At least there's some good recordings of it out there.

Should I Stay or Should I go---I think most can relate to the song title. I do enjoy the random instrumental noise before they start playing the song. Along with the concept of TPATH as more of a jam band that wasn't, so too sometimes I wonder what a noisy experimental/weird album from them would be like, their version of it, where songs like It's Rainin' Again and Lookin' for Daddy and the normal noises or whatever were the main foundation of a record instead of the exceptions.

Nice playing overall. A lot of good raucous energy.

I like this song but there isn't anything particularly special about it or about them playing it. See, another reason I generally didn't care for the covers was because if TPATH weren't going to play their deep cuts, who else would? And would anyone really want to hear them not sung by Tom etc. etc.? It's the Let Me Up tour, why not play the title song? Oh well. I guess between this and some of their other covers I'd take this.

Even The Losers---One of their best songs. Some parts of this feel a bit slower and then it seems to speed up but I think that's part of the charm. I really enjoy the outro, it seems like this song used to get a bit of an extended outro a bit too. Now that I think about it, did this song just fall away over the past couple tours? Of course I can go look it up. Is this even right? Not played since 2008? That doesn't seem right.

Anyway, I think I've heard better versions of this but this is still pretty good with some nice drumming from Stan.

Jammin Me----My understanding is this was played on this tour, a bit on the 89 (?) tour and then in 97 and 99. For a radio single it didn't last as long as one would think; I still don't get why it was left off Greatest Hits. First perfectly after DCAHNM. Anyway. That intro is great! I think I heard another bootleg where it goes on longer. But still...this song shows how much power a simple chord riff can have. Back and forth, it's relentless. Interesting to note the different names in the verse. Something sounds refreshingly different from the later versions of the song, a guitar f/x or something. I like it. A lot of energy to it as well, the Steve versions seem more heavy, this is lighter. One of the big surprises of seeing them in '99 was getting this as the first song. Quite a fun surprise!

Nice lead playing, whomever is doing it before the "pasadena" line is doing something different and disjointed, I like it. Anyway, this is a good rock song and it's usually nice to hear it, on this tour, at the Fillmore or from '99. But this tour has it at its peak, between Stan's drumming during the outro where he's given more free reign, the intro and some of the outro soloing! Man, some sweet playing from 4:47-5:01.

Picture them leaving off IGTBK and throwing this in as an epic guitar shred fest. But I'll stop there.

Refugee---I like the breakdown, the soloing, the sparseness, a trick they return to throughout their whole career but darn if it ain't effective. I like whatever Stan's doing on the drums there. Too soon for my taste Tom returns to the singing. This is a bit faster than I recall later versions of the song but that makes sense. Jeez, this is what, thirty some years before their final tour. Crazy. Anyway, they never took great liberties with this song (save that one show at Neil Young's benefit school in San Fran) but whenever they did it was welcome as the song can stretch out a bit without losing its character. Nice energy version. I'm so used to Runnin' Down A Dream following this one.

Bye Bye Johnny---It's all right depending on my mood. But generally, this early style of rock music doesn't do much for me. However, the energy they bring to it is good. I think this kind of short high energy song works best after a mammoth long show or at least a very long jam song; it feels in some way like the peak of this show was with Runaway Trains or maybe Jammin' Me. The version I have seems to cut off right at the end but that's fine.

I guess that's it. Kind of a short show. Glad their shows got longer again as they went along. A highlight, the further one goes back in TPATH bootlegs is the differences, shows without the well worn FMF and WF songs. Covers that, while I'd prefer deep cuts, are potentially different and a whole different energy feel from the band. They weren't a punk band, but a show like this, some of their songs almost feel punk, or out and out rockabilly or something. It's fun to hear. 

I'm glad the band evolved into more of a jam band, like with IGTBK or Saving Grace, Face in the Crowd, Two Men Talking, Travelin' Light, Melinda etc. But there's something unique and enjoyable about these earlier tours; or I could just be romanticizing them because I've heard them less overall and they just sound fresh and there's more, or a bit more variation in the shows than concerts later on, like say from the HE tour to the 40th.

I think novelty's a big factor in my enjoyment of this show and perhaps these older concerts overall but that's not to downplay the quality of the performances and while I'd enjoy a ten minute Jammin' Me I'm still glad they extended the songs as they did.

cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nice write-up MJ2LD.  I agree that the Mansfield MA 1987 show (aka "Great Woods") is one of the best, probably the best overall full concert recording popularly traded from that tour.  The 1987 tour in support of the LMU album had fewer performances than usual, due to the band's other role as Bob Dylan's backing band in 1986-87.   

Other good recordings from that tour include NYC, which might have been the best (the #1 version of that show on LivePetty), except that Even The Losers and Jammin' Me are marred by some microphone issues.  I recall reading a comment from the taper that he was holding the microphones and started dancing at that point, causing the "warble" sound issue - I'll be forever thankful that he recorded and shared the show, but I wish he'd chosen some other time to dance.   Still, the non-warbly part is really great.   

Also Dallas is very good, and I think that's the one that includes a funny moment where (I assume) someone throws a toy alligator on the stage, and Tom makes a humorous remark about it, as Stan picks it up.  The Jacksonville radio show has the very best sound, but strangely it includes only one song from LMU, Runaway Trains.

The LMU album had many songs worthy of playing live, and I agree that Runaway Trains and Jammin' Me were highlights.  Though I also liked Think About Me (which had been played at the Dylan/Petty shows in 1986), It'll All Work Out and My Life/Your World.  It's surprising that they didn't play The Damage You've Done until after this tour (and even then very rarely), they also played How Many More Days after this tour, but not on it.   I'd have also loved hearing even more songs from the album, such as Ain't Love Strange and All Mixed Up, possibly also the title track Let Me Up also (I don't think any of those were ever played live).    

By the way, "Riverflow" is The Ballad of Easy Rider, written by Roger McGuinn, though the first line was written by Bob Dylan.  The story is that Dylan was asked to do a song for the movie "Easy Rider", declined but wrote the entire first line about the river, then suggested that Roger McGuinn should make a song out of it.  So in a way that's another of Petty's tributes to McGuinn/The Byrds, as well as somewhat to Dylan.  It's a good song, but as usual I'd have rather heard a TPATH original more than a cover version, especially with a new album out and some great songs from it being ignored.   

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6 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Nice write-up MJ2LD.

Thanks.

6 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Even The Losers and Jammin' Me are marred by some microphone issues. 

I think I might have heard this one years ago, I'll go check it out sometime again as I'm not quite sure where my copy is. I do recall being upset when Jammin Me sounded weird. I guess I'll just be glad he taped the show even if he danced. I can't blame him for dancing during those songs ha ha!

6 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

The Damage You've Done until after this tour (and even then very rarely),

It's a definite highlight on your favorite bootleg.

6 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

possibly also the title track Let Me Up also (I don't think any of those were ever played live).    

 

For me, this and Finding Out (which at least has the Houba Houba performance) are two of the biggest surprises. I wonder if they tried 'em in rehearsal and they didn't work. Was Let Me Up considered a throwaway? But then, the album is named after it, right? And that outro, that one line, I think it's on guitar that's either ascending or descending I don't recall, is so darn good! It'd be interesting maybe if someone interviewed one of the band and inquired about these songs. Anyway, very good rock song.

6 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

It's a good song, but as usual I'd have rather heard a TPATH original more than a cover version, especially with a new album out and some great songs from it being ignored. 

I agree!

cheers

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I will add to this as time permits but here are my thought on the show....

Fist of all I was already a fan of the Del Fuegos, seeing them live really solidified them as a perennial favorite and I still listen to Boston MA more than the average person as it really brings me back to this summer.  This was the band at their peak essentially, home town show and they just knocked it out of the park. (I wish there was a boot of this as well as the GA Satellites in addition to this show.) Hearing them play Don't run wild to a huge crowd before their Miller Beer commercial was a huge treat for me. I saw this band at least twice more. Once in a small park in Cape Neddick Maine and they were s%$tfaced and they sounded like hell. Saw them swigging from a bottle before they went on and the set was not nearly as good as Great Woods. I managed to catch them again in 2012 for a brief reunion tour and they were back in form for that one with Warren and Dan playing and singing like it was 1987 all over again but as an opener for an opener they were for sure top notch back in 87 and I would see them again if they reformed again in a heartbeat.*

The Georgia Satellites (GAS) were also in top form and probably at their peak as well. Again their self titled debut album was and is still a favorite. I had probably seen a half dozen concerts before this show (Great White, Triumph, Pink Floyd at the very least so I had a decent baseline to judge from.) and the energy behind this set was just unbelievable.  The crowd as I recall really got behind the couple of singles (battleship chains, and keep your hands to yourself) and the crowd was more than warmed up for Tom and the boys when they came on. Mind you show time was still 7:30PM and both of these bands played 30-40 minute sets before the main act hit the stage...

I had lawn seats and was near the center on a blanket with my friends Kirk and Dave who had brought his new girlfriend Jenn who I'm actually friends with to today.  At some point in the Satellites set Dave and Jenn went under the blanket for a long make out section (gross right? ;) )  it got a little uncomfortable for Kirk, myself and the crowd around me as these little sixteen year old's were making a spectacle of themselves just outside of plain sight. So I quietly sprinkled them with some popcorn on the blanket... the crowd around me started laughing so I poured more on them, this got a bigger laugh and my friends were clueless to all that was going around above the blanket. A few minuets more go by and now fairly irked at them I took the rest of the movie style bucket of popcorn and dumped it on Dave's back and pressed the empty bucket down mildly hard.  He immediately shoots up "what? What just happened? with the crowd around him giggling and popcorn all over him and Jenn and the reddest cheeks you have ever seen on both of their faces.  They behaved for the remainder of the show. 😂🤣😂 thirty two years later and I can see it like it was last week. 

At some-point that evening I bought a white tour shirt that was already too small for me as it was a smallish medium. Still have the shirt in my closet, wore it for a year or so and then totally outgrew it. 

@MJ2LD I think the set was somewhat shorter to accommodate the Rock-N-Roll caravan triple bill as Great Woods has a more or less strict curfew as their are some homes nearby. I want to re-listen to the set by Tom before I comment further but this show really turned me into a Pettyhead and I rarely missed a show in the next thirty or so years of the band coming around to New England.  Jenn and I saw Tom a few times together again with other folks over the years, wish I could have taken her to see Tom the last tour but as we both have school age kids she couldn't make it the last time. :( 

 

* I saw Dan Zanes as a solo artist quite a few times as he has been doing children music for the last couple of decades. Its closer to pop folk music if that makes any sense, and he is really quite listenable with or without kids in the car. Now that my kids are 14 and 16 (the age I was when I saw this show - holy crap.) we don't follow Dan anymore, but we saw him in at least 3 New England States back then and my wife and I plan to go see him again some time to relive the kids being so damn little and the dance party atmosphere.  The funny thing is Dan used to do an all star show for mothers day and his Mom to benefit the Friendly kitchen so a bunch of local Boston area musicians would show up to this kids show so I met the drummer from Morphine, Laurie Sargent and a few other locals that I had listened to in the 80s while my kids wondered why Dad was geeking out as the band got on stage...😎

** I'm really bummed as it turns out I just missed the GAS playing in MA,  Dan Baird had a brush with really bad health a year or two back and seems to have recovered now. I have heard he still does a great show so check them out if you are a fan as he reunited the band and they are doing shows around the us and UK. 

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55 minutes ago, Hoodoo Man said:

  They behaved for the remainder of the show. 😂🤣😂 thirty two years later and I can see it like it was last week. 

That whole anecdote is hilarious, ha ha! Thanks for sharing, nicely written.

56 minutes ago, Hoodoo Man said:

I think the set was somewhat shorter to accommodate the Rock-N-Roll caravan triple bill as Great Woods has a more or less strict curfew

Ah, that makes sense. I'm glad you had such a memorable night with such vivid memories. Kindly share some more and what you thought of the band when you've the chance. That's neat you have a good sounding souvenir from the show to accompany your memories.

cheers

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17 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Ain't Love Strange and All Mixed Up, possibly also the title track Let Me Up also (I don't think any of those were ever played live).

All the more so considering All Mixed Up was even a single at the time. (Trivia: also their first CD single). Not a personal favorite song by any means, the decision to make it a single always seemed odd to me. But it was, and as such it's without a doubt comparatively overlooked and ignored in the live context and also not duly anthologized. Just an observation. 

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29 minutes ago, Shelter said:

All the more so considering All Mixed Up was even a single at the time. (Trivia: also their first CD single). Not

But what was their first phonograph single?

 I didn't know that about All Mixed Up. I like the song though it's not one of my favorites from the record. I think it was chosen because it has a poppy sort of feel musically and relationship lyrics so maybe they thought it had wider appeal. They got Jammin Me as the rock song, here's something different. Well, that's how it seems from way...way....outside. It seems like a logical strategy.

I wonder if My Life/Your World would've had bigger success. I guess a record company/radio can push a song but if people don't react to it there's nothing they can do. Well, push it more but eventually they'd stop. Not that All Mixed Up was heavily promoted or not.

Hey! What do you make of the '87 shows that you've heard Shelter?

ciao!

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23 minutes ago, Shelter said:

All the more so considering All Mixed Up was even a single at the time. (Trivia: also their first CD single). Not a personal favorite song by any means, the decision to make it a single always seemed odd to me. But it was, and as such it's without a doubt comparatively overlooked and ignored in the live context and also not duly anthologized. Just an observation. 

Also A Self Made Man, MJ2LD mentioned it as one he might have liked hearing live (instead of cover songs).   Somewhat surprisingly (given the other possible choices from that album), ASMM did make it to the Playback 6 CD anthology.   It could have been pretty cool in a live, somewhat extended version.  But never played live (to my knowledge).

I'd forgotten about All Mixed Up being a single; and didn't realize it was their first CD single - interesting trivia there.   

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2 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

But what was their first phonograph single?

First single (traditional format, 45) from the album was Jammin Me, next one was Runaway Trains, then All Mixed Up (3rd single and 1st CD single).    

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I rarely listen to that 87' Mansfield show because it runs slightly slow. Almost a full semi-tone flat. I suppose I could quit being lazy and do some speed correction on it.  I like to pick up a guitar and play along with the band, but I have to re-tune the guitar for that show.    I think running slow also takes some power out of Tom's voice.   Can't have that.

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23 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Jammin Me----My understanding is this was played on this tour, a bit on the 89 (?) tour and then in 97 and 99. For a radio single it didn't last as long as one would think; I still don't get why it was left off Greatest Hits. First perfectly after DCAHNM. Anyway. That intro is great! I think I heard another bootleg where it goes on longer. But still...this song shows how much power a simple chord riff can have. Back and forth, it's relentless. Interesting to note the different names in the verse. Something sounds refreshingly different from the later versions of the song, a guitar f/x or something. I like it. A lot of energy to it as well, the Steve versions seem more heavy, this is lighter. One of the big surprises of seeing them in '99 was getting this as the first song. Quite a fun surprise!

I agree regarding Steve's heavier drums on Jammin Me than the way Stan played it.  Actually I think Steve's heavier drums work well for the song, one of the few times I feel that Steve's heavy drumming might have improved the song, or at least given it a slightly different feel which is as enjoyable as the original.  I agree it was a great show opener on the 1999 tour (latter portion).  Or as the 2nd song in the setlist but first TPATH original, as they did in the earlier part of the 1999 tour, and most of the Fillmore 1997 shows (usually following "Around and Around").    

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6 minutes ago, TomFest said:

I rarely listen to that 87' Mansfield show because it runs slightly slow. Almost a full semi-tone flat. I suppose I could quit being lazy and do some speed correction on it.  I like to pick up a guitar and play along with the band, but I have to re-tune the guitar for that show.    I think running slow also takes some power out of Tom's voice.   Can't have that.

Interesting.  Nero Wave Editor is an excellent and free tool, if someone wants to play around with it.  That's one of the few tools where you can append/insert music, so you can effectively change the track marks if you wish.  It also enables things like changing pitch and speed, as well as various equalizer type of options. 

Generally I like to stay away from fiddling with the original live recordings, and of course they'd have to be described as such if traded (or even just kept in a personal collection).  I didn't realize that the Mansfield 87 show was at a slow speed, though oddly enough it is one of the few that I felt could benefit from some tweaking.  Many years ago I tried to enhance the highs via Nero Wave Editor, but gave up trying because I wasn't sure I was actually improving things.  The slow speed may have been the reason that I thought the highs were slightly lacking in an otherwise very clean (for the era) recording. 

I'm not musically skilled enough to feel I can properly speed adjust a recording though; if you do find a proper speed adjustment, perhaps you could share the notation on that.  The only time I decided to adjust the speed on a bootleg was a Cars show from Japan 1980, where they seemed to be playing impossibly fast (but it otherwise had good sound).  My method was just to compare the song lengths to other shows from the same era, and try to find an overall speed change that would bring them closer together in length.  It did seem to be an improvement but I'm not sure it was a "proper" job.         

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13 minutes ago, Shelter said:
45 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

next one was Runaway Trains

What's that? Really.. RT wasn't a single, was it now.

It was according to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Petty_discography

Though as we know, Wikipedia can have mistakes.  I had the album back then (as a vinyl LP), and I wasn't paying attention to the singles.  I wasn't even aware that TPATH had issued single B-sides which weren't on the albums, until I had the Playbox boxed set.  That was the pre-internet era, of course. 

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37 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

What do you make of the '87 shows that you've heard Shelter?

Love them for two reasons. Great song selection. Great sound to the LMU material compared to the record.

 

19 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

So in a way that's another of Petty's tributes to McGuinn/The Byrds, as well as somewhat to Dylan

Yeah, maybe one can call it that. 

Speaking of homages, the BOER imagery is revisited in TP's own writing too, in Something Good Coming too...

Besides, it's fitting that TPATH would incorporate some material with connection to Dylan and MgGuinn in 1987, given their recent mutual live adventures. To just pick a BD song from the recent trips they made with Bob, would've been obvious, yet possibly boring (since surely many people seeing them had seen them with Bob too...) .

Of course, they could've picked something cool like Chimes of Freedom or Mr Tambourine Man (also connected to McGuinn) but ultimately they went a bit deeper on that side and brilliantly so IMO, with BOER.

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7 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Yeah that is so odd. Perhaps RT and Think About Me charted as played on radio titles, or something such. I am fairly certain I have never seen either of them as physical singles. Never a picture, or even listed as singles in any other serious context. Curious.

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1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Interesting.  Nero Wave Editor is an excellent and free tool, if someone wants to play around with it.  That's one of the few tools where you can append/insert music, so you can effectively change the track marks if you wish.  It also enables things like changing pitch and speed, as well as various equalizer type of options. 

Generally I like to stay away from fiddling with the original live recordings, and of course they'd have to be described as such if traded (or even just kept in a personal collection).  I didn't realize that the Mansfield 87 show was at a slow speed, though oddly enough it is one of the few that I felt could benefit from some tweaking.  Many years ago I tried to enhance the highs via Nero Wave Editor, but gave up trying because I wasn't sure I was actually improving things.  The slow speed may have been the reason that I thought the highs were slightly lacking in an otherwise very clean (for the era) recording. 

I'm not musically skilled enough to feel I can properly speed adjust a recording though; if you do find a proper speed adjustment, perhaps you could share the notation on that.  The only time I decided to adjust the speed on a bootleg was a Cars show from Japan 1980, where they seemed to be playing impossibly fast (but it otherwise had good sound).  My method was just to compare the song lengths to other shows from the same era, and try to find an overall speed change that would bring them closer together in length.  It did seem to be an improvement but I'm not sure it was a "proper" job.         

I've used "Audacity" in the past to alter the pitch, but not often.  I've only ever re-shared a show once that I did that to.  It was a Jim Croce show at the Philadelphia Folk Festival in 1973 just a very short time before his death.  Great recording that sounds like he's in the room with you, but it needed speed correction. 

I'm afraid my method isn't super scientific - I make sure my guitar is tuned to pitch and I match the recording speed to it.  The Heartbreakers are always tuned to pitch (in concert), so the recording should also be there.

I don't consider that I'm "fiddling with the original live recording".  I'm putting it back where it belongs after someone else already fiddled with it.

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2 hours ago, TomFest said:

I rarely listen to that 87' Mansfield show because it runs slightly slow. Almost a full semi-tone flat.

Wow, good ear!

2 hours ago, TomFest said:

I like to pick up a guitar and play along with the band,

Nice.

2 hours ago, TomFest said:

I think running slow also takes some power out of Tom's voice.   Can't have that.

I still enjoy the show and the LMU songs sound quite good, particularly Runaway Trains and Jammin' Me. 

2 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

next one was Runaway Trains,

That's a bold choice as I could see people losing interest fairly fast with the song, and it's a bit longer for them.

2 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I think Steve's heavier drums work well for the song, one of the few times I feel that Steve's heavy drumming might have improved the song, or at least given it a slightly different feel

I think it's one of those songs that either drum does it well, it worked with both men's styles. I understand them leaving off the intro but it's a shame they didn't even jam out for a good two minutes during the outro, well, as far as the versions I've heard. Still, no complaints, like I said, I was shocked when they played it in '99 and I got to hear it in person. Quite fun!

1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Generally I like to stay away from fiddling with the original live recordings, and of course they'd have to be described as such if traded (or even just kept in a personal collection). 

Even if I had the programs to do so it's not something I'd put the time into, most likely just find another live recording. But the slowed down recording sounds fine to me, thought if indeed TomFest is right then a properly adjusted one would be even more high energy.

I still think the '91 or '92 is a good demarcation between the old band and what they evolved into, a shifting line I guess, but looking back, this tour was the las time Stan played without feeling like being in a cover band for some of the songs. Now granted that could've been him exaggerating his feelings and it's all ancient history by this point but with LMU being produced by the band, it was at its time the most pure Heartbreakers album; it seems that they hit the ground running on this tour, it's got a lot of higher energy songs.

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

Great song selection. Great sound to the LMU material compared to the record.

I agree.

cheers

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2 hours ago, TomFest said:

I don't consider that I'm "fiddling with the original live recording".  I'm putting it back where it belongs after someone else already fiddled with it.

Good point.  At least it's intended to restore the concert sound back to where it was, before a recording corrupted it.

2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

this tour was the las time Stan played without feeling like being in a cover band for some of the songs. Now granted that could've been him exaggerating his feelings and it's all ancient history by this point but with LMU being produced by the band, it was at its time the most pure Heartbreakers album; it seems that they hit the ground running on this tour, it's got a lot of higher energy songs.

Yes great observation.  Although I do love some of the post 1987 shows, such as NC 1989 (and it is 89 and not 90 as some bootegs claim, it's a radio concert that was issued on vinyl LPs to radio stations, and maybe some station played it in 1990, but I heard it on the radio in 1989) and many of the ITGWO shows such as Take the Highway.   But I agree that the energy is somewhat changed after 1987, quite possibly due to the FMF effect of TP becoming more significant within the band. 

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5 hours ago, Shelter said:

Yeah that is so odd. Perhaps RT and Think About Me charted as played on radio titles, or something such. I am fairly certain I have never seen either of them as physical singles. Never a picture, or even listed as singles in any other serious context. Curious.

It'd have to be. "Out in the Cold" was never officially released as a single but hit number 1 on on the Rock Chart

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9 hours ago, TomFest said:

 

I'm afraid my method isn't super scientific - I make sure my guitar is tuned to pitch and I match the recording speed to it.  The Heartbreakers are always tuned to pitch (in concert), so the recording should also be there.

I don't consider that I'm "fiddling with the original live recording".  I'm putting it back where it belongs after someone else already fiddled with it.

 Aww, clever approach! Especially with TPATH's being so precise about their sound.

So, presumably this wouldn't work so well with a band who have more of a sloppy style...

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12 hours ago, Hoodoo Man said:

saw Dan Zanes as a solo artist quite a few times as he has been doing children music for the last couple of decades. Its closer to pop folk music if that makes any sense, and he is really quite listenable with or without kids in the car.

Haha reading that abiut Dan Zanes  hit a memory for me!! Concert with band called Cockroaches as support band for Hoodoo Gurus. Cockies were GREAT little band, man they were so high energy. We all had so damn fun, up & dancing. I guess you could say bass & drum were really tight, but whole band were on fire. Played lots of 1950s high energy rock & roll covers. Some of their own songs too. 

Soon after, reshuffled into... The Wiggles ... and dominated kids' music for next however long. 

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8 hours ago, martin03345 said:

It'd have to be. "Out in the Cold" was never officially released as a single but hit number 1 on on the Rock Chart

Yeah.. although OITC at least was made into an actual promo single for the purpose, with picture sleeve and all. So was Making Some Noise, for example. (Both on CD). And both those songs were at least played live, if briefly. And at least I, haven't found any trace of even simple sleeveless promos being made from RT or TAM. They did play album tracks on the waves though.

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