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peterdimples

Echo in the Canyon

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Went to see a matinee yesterday before going to the Lucinda Williams concert in Sacramento. 

Really lovely documentary with a soundtrack that jingles and jangles for 90 minutes.

Tom tells great stories, particularly about winning a copy of Pet Sounds on the radio and about seeing Buffalo Springfield and Beach Boys in Gainesville in 1968 and thinking "This is how good its supposed to be. Maybe better."

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5 hours ago, peterdimples said:

I loved the Jakob Dylan/Beck cover of "Goin' Back". It made me pull out my Byrds box set and dig in all over again.

Don't get me started on the Byrds lol. Top 5 band for me all time and truly underrated

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Can't wait to see this!

17 hours ago, martin03345 said:

Don't get me started on the Byrds lol. Top 5 band for me all time and truly underrated

I don't know if they're underrated... maybe depends on who does the rating. 😉 I love them, especially the albums "Turn! Turn! Turn!", "Dr. Byrds And Mr. Hyde", "Ballad of Easy Rider" and "(Untitled)". They are a treasure trove just like the Beatles' albums.

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1 hour ago, TwoGunslingers said:

Can't wait to see this!

I don't know if they're underrated... maybe depends on who does the rating. 😉 I love them, especially the albums "Turn! Turn! Turn!", "Dr. Byrds And Mr. Hyde", "Ballad of Easy Rider" and "(Untitled)". They are a treasure trove just like the Beatles' albums.

They are underrated in the sense that people just think of the band for Mr. Tambourine Man or Sweetheart of the Rodeo. They have a great overall discography and many albums such as Ballad of Easy Rider is a forgotten country-rock masterpiece because it's not SOTR. Not only that, their best lineup and most long lasting line up was during those days. Clarence White and Roger McGuinn might be the best guitar duo ever.

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I second that emotion.

Sure, some of their finest moments were Dylan penned, but even that aside they are among the best handful of bands of their era, not to say ever. Always overshadowed by the likes of The Beatles, The Stones, The Doors, The Who and What have you... but to my mind not as far behind as some people will have you believe. Certainly Byrds were equals or even superior to the latter two mentioned and most other oftentimes hyped mighty classic lineups of the era, as in Animals, Kinks, Zombies, Allman and all that jazz (zepadee doodah??!). There's just no denying the genius of Hillman, Clark, McGuinn and Co. and the sound they made. One of the single best, effective, evocative and defining sounds ever. Every bit as sonically original, pioneering all of jangly folk rock forever, as ever Bob was pioneering songwriting.

To me their (Untitled) is one of the best records of all time and several of their Dylan renditions beat the original by a margin. Enough said right there. Between the brilliance of their take of Chimes of Freedom, Lady Friend and Chestnut Mare these guys had MAGIC touch. (Must say though. It's quite ironic given the Byrds fame with it, but to me Tambourine Man was always Dylan and Dylan only. Byrds did make great pop of it, but the original is one of the few surviving examples of music of Gods IMO.)

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Yeah I can't put The Byrds anywhere near that top 5 ranking.  I like them well enough, but they lost the great harmony vocals when they fired David Crosby. The later versions of the band were good, and I like some of their work, but to say they were the equal of The Who is just crazy talk.  Maybe a top 50 band, but I'd have to really think about that.  They just don't have the output of great songs to rank way up high. 

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Oh they do. But two things:

For one thing, it is hard to compare genres like that, so maybe I was sloppy. Matching Byrds vs Who feel strange to me, admittedly. (Who had the least no. of diamond standard compositions and recordings, if you ask me. Also a somewhat less genre defining legacy. Who did? WHO did!) But they are also so very different bands the both of them, in vibe it's not fair to compare. 

For another, I really AM crazy, so what other way would I talk.

Comparisons aside, I really think it unfair to deny the deep and profound impact of Byrds on the development of certain rock subgenres and styles to come. That alone should keep them forever in the top dozen of their era surely? To deny that seems less insightful, regardless of personal taste. And. To push them off the mighty Top 50 cliff like that even - to go hang out with whom you suggest - Count Five? Trashmen? (the byrd is a word?) Paul Anka? The Rocking Vickers..? well that is just silly talk. If anything, to me that proves the point about them Byrds being even more underrated than I thought.

Would you at least consider top 25?

😃

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They're the godfathers of country-rock and Americana.

International Submarine Band leads to the Byrds with Gram Parsons to their own defining innovating country-rock sound while at the same time doing this while Gram Parsons and Chris Hillman form The Flying Burrito Brothers which leads to Gram leaving after two albums to do his own thing while Bernie Leadon joins the band and then goes on to be a founding member of the Eagles, which whether you like it or not, end up being the definitive American sound.

Oh, and while Gene Parsons (no relation to Gram) and Clarence White are in the band, they invent a little thing called the B-Bender that also transforms the country sound for decades to come. Also, Gene Clark goes onto with Dillard-Clark to make their own country-rock albums while Crosby in CSN and sometimes Y go on to do their own country-rock as well.

The roots and family tree of the Byrds are vast and huge and I only just barely covered their country-rock period and didn't even touch upon their ground breaking psychedelic years and their folk-rock years that have their own, vast importance on the music landscape.

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As I said, I am a fan - and I am fully aware of their history, and that of the Burritos, etc.  Nobody is denying their influence as early country-rock artists. I like all of it, including Gram's spotty solo records. All I'm saying is that they don't belong near the top of any "greatest bands of all time" conversation. 

A quick check of the Internet (and it never lies) and we find that Rolling Stone magazine has The Byrds at #45 - so they do crack the top 50 there.  But I don't find them on any other top 50 or top 100 lists from VH1, Billboard, Spin magazine, etc - in my admittedly brief search (although they made #103 at "Ranker", whatever that is).  So apparently, it's not just me that is being silly.  There are other silly folks out there too.   I can't promise top 25 even.  Sorry.

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This song is always welcome in my speakers / earphones. 

Not sure I've ever shortlisted 10, 25, 100 bands as such... I like the way JakobDylan explored this as musicians "linked to Laurel Canyon in some way"... 

Guess if I absolutely had to choose, I'd start with core of all musicians appearing in The Last Waltz & Concert for Bangladesh & Concert For George & work outwards from there... Okay, sure, also musicians appearing on Hidden Treasures. Happy to assume overall it's (a) Heartbreakers followed by (b) all the others. 

 

 

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Because when I think publications of great musical journalism, I think of VH1 and Billboard lmao. Hell, Rolling Stone had the gall to have Kurt Cobain be in their original "Top 100 Guitarist List of All Time".

You may not like them as much as other bands, music taste is subjective. However, The Byrds influence and defining role as an act is not subjective. Just because not as many people are aware of someone like John Prine who never has been a pop icon, doesn't mean his work isn't well respected and beloved by people who know music.

4 hours ago, TomFest said:

As I said, I am a fan - and I am fully aware of their history, and that of the Burritos, etc.  Nobody is denying their influence as early country-rock artists. I like all of it, including Gram's spotty solo records. All I'm saying is that they don't belong near the top of any "greatest bands of all time" conversation. 

A quick check of the Internet (and it never lies) and we find that Rolling Stone magazine has The Byrds at #45 - so they do crack the top 50 there.  But I don't find them on any other top 50 or top 100 lists from VH1, Billboard, Spin magazine, etc - in my admittedly brief search (although they made #103 at "Ranker", whatever that is).  So apparently, it's not just me that is being silly.  There are other silly folks out there too.   I can't promise top 25 even.  Sorry.

 

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As a sidenote, I notice some talk "best of all time" type rankings here, no? In which case the scope exponentially explodes out of hand completely. Me neither would probably find The Byrds - no matter how much I love them and acknowledge their historical importance - in the top 25 of such universal (and to me rather pointless) list. In the Top 100 ever certainly. Maybe even 50. Perhaps. As for the "among the best of their era" dimension, though (to tie this back to the topic here..) well.. I won't back down....! They are. And people dont recognize this in general. Thus = Underrated.

Perhaps it's worth noticing this distinction between ever and era, before arguing on different wavelength. I don't know.

And again, any list that doesn't take any aspects of impact (cultural, musical) into consideration, is a shaky solely subjective construction to me.

Of interest, at least to me, where would people here put TPATH then? On a universal ranking? Contemporary american rock ranking? If Byrds don't make top 50 of everything ever, where does this leave TPATH (that we seem to assign some importance around here)?? My guess is that outside of places like this, they are sadly underrated too, if praised by some key figures in the "biz" and respected and appreciated well enough by the masses.

How about Byrds vs TPATH, in terms of ranking status, objectively attempted? I'd say they aren't too different in many ways, actually. To me probably I'd say Byrds impact was still bigger, their sound and style more groundbreaking, with TPATH more traditional in that sense. As for original material, TPATH to me is superior, with a stronger bigger catalogue for legacy. Again, different eras is difficult to compare but there is a sense that both bands have gained true and original recognition, yet they generally fail to reach that level of the most loved and covered by the international music press, records and bands ranking. (Sweethearts often actually do reaches fairly high level rankings of best ever albums in a way no TP album have done in general.. and Byrds have gotten at least one or two cover story, deep coverage nerd-o-rama pieces in publications like Record Collector, Rolling Stone, Uncut, Mojo magazine, something TP despite some status never did much past the odd article or honorary mention..

 

But still.. compared to Zep, Floyd, Dylan, Elvis, Cream, Doors, Johnny Cash, Beatles, Stones, Bowie, Who,  Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Stevie Wonder, yes Ringo too, Roy, Velvet Underground, The Band, Beach Boys, Little Richard, Neil Young, Springsteen, Yardbirds, Clash, Black Sabbath, U2, Eagles, Hendrix, Aerosmith, Grateful Dead, Clapton, Paul Simon, Queen, Jackson, Supremes, Run DMC, Stooges, Ramones, Nine Inch Nails, Jerry Lee, Bob Marley, Aretha, Ray Charles even old bluesmen.. not to mention all of British invasion and even CCR, Neil Diamond or Moby Grape too.. later Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Depeche Mode, Simple Minds, Metallica, Radiohead, and Eminem, hiphop or Madonna for christsake.. They all get more coverage and more prominent ranking than neither Byrds nor TPATH and most of them beats both TP and team Roger on most rankings, although there are exceptions.*

Now, did someone say underrated??

 

 

*Actually I read just recently that RS magazine ran an all time list that had Byrds for like 40 or something and TP at like 90. Of course competion is as fierce as it is random.. but still.. I guess they are not totally forgotten after all. Top 100 of everything, ever, is not that bad.

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OK, point taken, they definitely ARE underrated. 😄

Problem probably is that they had so many lineup changes with only McGuinn remaining from the original incarnation that they might have been more of a project than an actual "band". Which could have turned out embarrassing had they only tried to re-create their original sound over and over again and forced new members into impersonating old ones. But that wasn't how McGuinn played it. He incorporated the strengths of new members and was open to changes in sound, production and songwriting so that each album - or each lineup -  has its own sonic identity, if you will. To my liking, they might have done a little too much of the country rock thing in the end. But the sheer vastness of their stylistic range from beginning to end has had a so much bigger influence than many other, stylistically more coherent bands.

Plus, it's hard to think of other bands that could/can do carreer-defining covers and also write great original songs that are just as great.

And the harmonies, oh, the haromonies...

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4 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

OK, point taken, they definitely ARE underrated. 😄

Problem probably is that they had so many lineup changes with only McGuinn remaining from the original incarnation that they might have been more of a project than an actual "band". Which could have turned out embarrassing had they only tried to re-create their original sound over and over again and forced new members into impersonating old ones. But that wasn't how McGuinn played it. He incorporated the strengths of new members and was open to changes in sound, production and songwriting so that each album - or each lineup -  has its own sonic identity, if you will. To my liking, they might have done a little too much of the country rock thing in the end. But the sheer vastness of their stylistic range from beginning to end has had a so much bigger influence than many other, stylistically more coherent bands.

Plus, it's hard to think of other bands that could/can do carreer-defining covers and also write great original songs that are just as great.

And the harmonies, oh, the haromonies...

Did you say embarrassing recreation of their famed work?!? Well I have a sad video for you! I love how bored they look during their pantomiming of "Mr. Tambourine Man".

And I get why some people may not like their later years. Though Americana has been growing into a huge genre the past 15 years, I know just from over the 15 years I've been on this board that most people on here are not the biggest fans of that style. And again, to each their own. Whether you like them or not wasn't the point, the point I was just getting across is that their a vastly underrated band.

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I was pretty bummed to notice at 4PM sunday that the Film was being screened in Cambridge MA about 60 min away- at 5pm with a Q&A with Jacob and a live performance after that.  Sadly I was on my way to the airport and couldn't detour.  

what made me sadder is there seemed to be several screenings in Boston with the Q&A so keep a close eye on their FB page for events like this near you.  Seems they are on some kind of tour. 

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I guess it's fair to say The Byrds are underrated by those that don't care for country-rock or Americana, but I don't think that's the case for fans of the genre.  They're held in pretty high regard as contributing to the birth of that style of music.  Too bad the quality of that video was so poor.  I like their version of "Jesus Is Just Alright" maybe better than the Doobies. 

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4 hours ago, TomFest said:

I guess it's fair to say The Byrds are underrated by those that don't care for country-rock or Americana, but I don't think that's the case for fans of the genre.  They're held in pretty high regard as contributing to the birth of that style of music.  Too bad the quality of that video was so poor.  I like their version of "Jesus Is Just Alright" maybe better than the Doobies. 

 

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6 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

From Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 

 

What a ride.. kinda messy. At first I thought well cigarette in mouth, laid back as ever, showing some distance even, being told instructions mid song, then defunct microphone, and a dancing bear on stage in robe and funny hat.. (is that Bruce, straight from the VIP lounge bar.. and wth..?!) I was thinking stop baby what's that sound .. Then of course.. midways, Tom steps in, saves the day with ultra cool delivery and phrasing and shows the tired old dinos what song it is, what soul it has and how it is to be understood. Cool as ever! From there on it works ok.. but still.. I know these guys are legends.. but they butchered this.. really chaotic and they are far from enjoyable shape here.

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