Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Hoodoo Man

WTH??? Best of everything 11/9/18??

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, High Grass Dog said:

I don't understand why people here think this is such a travesty. It's just a greatest hits release. What's the big deal with this being released so close to An American Treasure?

And because, unless I'm mistaken, none of the family or band have even mentioned the album's existence.  Unlike previous albums over the last 40 years, this is dropped into the market place by the record label - but without any background context or support from the family and/or band.  So until the family and/or band are involved in it's promotion, I will have my doubts about it.  

  • It also comes so closely on the heels of American Treasure that they might compete with each other.   In times of low record sales within the music biz, this is just plain dumb marketing.  In terms of rolling out product, this lacks respect for the creation & release of American Treasure.

This approach is the utter opposite of everything about the way the family and band created American Treasure and promoted it.  Everything about American Treasure relies heavily on the band's creative heritage and the relationship between the band and its loyal following It's such a different approach that I (and maybe other people too) might wonder if: 

  • a) any of the same people are involved &
  • b) to what extent this is actually something that is supported by the family and/or band. 
  • And to what extent the people behind this new album either recognize or respect the relationship between the band and its loyal following.

You did ask...  :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Big Blue Sky said:

PS spot the difference between 2 album covers for GH yes they retrospectively airbrushed out Benmont & Howie's cigarettes.  So they do have form!

Ah ha, see I didn't realize that had been done.  I had a copy of the original release (sans omission) and then the one I picked up recently has a completely different cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, High Grass Dog said:

I don't understand

As for me, I'm not as worked up as it may seem.. haha.. Just can't help but noticing a slight stench. It's easy not to care about the release itself, you are right. But it's as easy, for me, to think the how and when (and combined) of it smells.

You do have a point though: It's good that they get this out of the way as quickly as possible. At least if it actually is such a well meant and one-off thing as you seem to think. (I do have a feeling though, that part of the stench is the implication that there is more of the kind to come, many more..The business argument that some people rightfully put forward stipulates as much.)

6 hours ago, High Grass Dog said:

This kind of project isn't targeted to us.

What I like to know though, is - with those extra rare tracks - who is it target to? If it's a final fact since many discussions, here and elsewhere, that only the real "music geeks" are buying records any more, and that only them have any intense interest in unreleased, rare tracks (or indeed, as you rightfully point out, in the chronology..). So where does that leave the logic of this release? Still no smell?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:o stench-er-oo and righteous anger for me .... until the family and/or band says "hey man we're releasing a great album" 

About photo-shop...  I guess that was because times changed since they first released that album cover in 1993 & needed to re-release it later on.  But this current choice - no way! I do like the image for the intensity of TP's stare.  But as has been said already - there are a lot of photos if they want to look through & select one  without the ciggies.  And that's just from whatever's in the public domain!!!

Though maybe a working title for an album could be "Cigarettes & Coffee for Breakfast"?  Here's just one image...  Notice the look on both Benmont's and Mike's faces.  Why would anyone want to mess with these guys' musical reputation and legacy? IMG_0783.thumb.JPG.33c193f05d3f6a0ea6834ad19c8c089d.JPG

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, fine. Nice. They're basically releasing a new greatest hits collection... but WHY is it not in chronological order?! 
My brain... my brain... it's melting. 😵

(No need for me to buy since I already have all of this and can probably buy the unreleased versions easily as digital tracks). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh, wasn't TP himself somewhat guilty of promoting a 'best of' approach to his live concerts? Nearly all of them for the most parts bar one or two unique inclusions, had the usually staple offerings you associate with an Anthology, Greatest hits approach. I assume he did that because the audience expected to hear all the better known songs he's associated with. 

 

I agree that the usually flurry of posthumous record releases, on any musician that has recently died, does smack of financial exploitation - let's coin it in whilst we can mentality. It really doesn't matter who is behind it - those close to Tom or the record company. I find all of it a bit hasty (if those to TP) tacky (record companies). That's why I will be buying the whole TP&TH and MC albums, not this kind of compilation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7 October 2018 at 7:35 AM, Big Blue Sky said:

And because, unless I'm mistaken, none of the family or band have even mentioned the album's existence.  Unlike previous albums over the last 40 years, this is dropped into the market place by the record label - but without any background context or support from the family and/or band.  So until the family and/or band are involved in it's promotion, I will have my doubts about it.  

  • It also comes so closely on the heels of American Treasure that they might compete with each other.   In times of low record sales within the music biz, this is just plain dumb marketing.  In terms of rolling out product, this lacks respect for the creation & release of American Treasure.

This approach is the utter opposite of everything about the way the family and band created American Treasure and promoted it.  Everything about American Treasure relies heavily on the band's creative heritage and the relationship between the band and its loyal following It's such a different approach that I (and maybe other people too) might wonder if: 

  • a) any of the same people are involved &
  • b) to what extent this is actually something that is supported by the family and/or band. 
  • And to what extent the people behind this new album either recognize or respect the relationship between the band and its loyal following.

You did ask...  :(

Support by the band or family probably doesnt come into it. Signed artists' outpourings, unfortunately, are a commodity to be objectified like any other product for sale. To ask the family or band whether they mind, or consent, is not a legal requirement and it rather is like asking a cow whether it minds if their milk is sold to a supermarket. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Big Blue Sky said:

If you want to talk concert set-lists, MaryJanes2ndLastDance is your go to guy.

Ooo, this is gonna be good! Wait for me, I'll go get some popcorn..!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, MaryJane0612 said:

Support by the band or family probably doesnt come into it. Signed artists' outpourings, unfortunately, are a commodity to be objectified like any other product for sale. To ask the family or band whether they mind, or consent, is not a legal requirement and it rather is like asking a cow whether it minds if their milk is sold to a supermarket. 

True that. It will depend, though. There are cows that do own their own milk, as it were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 2:15 AM, chimera said:

Here's one thing to consider, I suppose: there may have been a contractual obligation to WMG for a greatest hits/best of package, and they're calling it in right now

I thought so, too, but TBOE comes out on Geffen. So that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I don't find it that bad, actually, that they release such a package. True, we already have "Greatest Hits", and it's the only real greatest hits, with the songs that actually were hits. But didn't we ourselves discuss in another thread possible tracklistings for a Greatest Hits, Vol. 2 or something to that effect? So here it is now... sort of. Even Anthology- Through The Years ends in 2000. This will be the first traditional Best Of-release covering the 2000s, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think this is THAT outrageous.

Maybe they planned American Treasure for the longtime fans (us) while TBOE is aimed at younger music lovers who are yet to discover Tom. It could become their "Greatest Hits". With signposts to all the wonderful original albums.

And even if not - it's a collection of brilliant music, you can't argue with that. We don't have to buy it if we don't want to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

I thought so, too, but TBOE comes out on Geffen. So that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Yep, you're absolutely right - it is a UMG release.  So that's interesting to me because then it adds another layer of complexity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MaryJane0612 said:

Tbh, wasn't TP himself somewhat guilty of promoting a 'best of' approach to his live concerts?

Yes. Probably my one major critique of Tom was his approach to set lists and concerts. They largely stuck to the same set, even on multiple nights in the same city, Tom often used the same stage banter at different shows. I think he had a very much vaudevillian approach, let's please the audience at all costs and take minimal risks. 

With their combined musical abilities they could've been one of those great live bands that cultivated people who saw them on multiple nights for the variety and spontanaiety. Instead they largely played it safe. One could read between the lines of some interviews and see some of the band would've enjoyed a more elastic live show. What became "maddening" at the time were different interviews where Tom would say they were going to do something different this tour or that who knows what could happen from night to night and then go out and largely play the same show.

For a lover of live music one could find a lot of joy in the quality of the performances and reworked songs across the years; Tom often gave Mike and Benmont plenty of space to jam  and solo within arrangements and it's wonderful. Some of the acoustic arrangements are quite good as well, believe it or not in the Great Wide Open Tour they were even playing American Girl in a shorter acoustic arrangement for the tour.

In my opinion, it was usually best to catch TPATH closer to the start of a tour when there were more chances of hearing deep cuts.

ITGWO tour: All Or Nothing---played on some early dates and never again

ECHO tour: Rhino Skin---same

HYPNOTIC EYE TOUR----Fault Lines...once and abandoned.

 There are many different opinons on this topic, some sensbily accepted what the band did not what they wanted or hoped the band would do. Others didn't seem to care about the familiarity of the sets, seeing multiple shows on the same tour even though they were nearly the exact same set down to the band intros with a slight chance of something different, some had no chance to see the band and as for me, I stopped seeing them when I began feeling the shows were too similar.

From what I could recall, (and I'm sure he'll appear if I misrepresent him) Shelter thought a better approach would be for the band to vary the set list from tour to tour and within the show itself, vary up how some songs are played, extended jams one night, straight rendition the next. I thought it best they go the Pearl Jam route of a different set each night, with some songs for jamming and a smart mix of hits and deep cuts to keep the audience enganged.

One other major issue I had with the band was the preponderance of covers. Too many in concert and too many on the Live Anthology and while they could certainly play the heck out of the songs, I think it would've been more interesting for them to dip into their back catalog and take a stab at their own deep cuts or never performed songs.

There were different points during the band's career where they did residencies or unique one or two-off performances where they pulled out deep cuts. One such run was dubbed by Mike as them being "Free of Free Fallin'."

Well, that should give you a bit of an overview. I'm sure a search on here for set list topics will find some of the above pounded into the ground by me and out the other side again. 

This was a hotly discussed topic in the past, here and in other topics if you're so inclined:

https://www.mudcrutch.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14229-2014-tour-setlists/&page=2&tab=comments#comment-295302I

Their last tour they didn't play any covers I don't think except for the spontaneous version of Carol at Red Rocks after a rain delay, which is fitting since it turned out to be their last tour, it even begun with the first song off their first record and ended with the last song off the same.

Despite the criticisms of the set list, the band has some fantastic concerts out there in soundboard quality from different tours and some fun variations of songs. I just think it's a shame they were never let loose so to speak, all that musical ability could've gone right to the edge night after night and even off it but that wasn't Tom's approach and it's moot now.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Shelter said:

True that. It will depend, though. There are cows that do own their own milk, as it were.

true... moo... but who? 

there are musicians who go to great lengths to retain creative freedoms & exercise their power within the music biz & who say:

  • "And I listen to the new album and I feel so good, because it's not a cheap shot.  It's not a bunch of old assholes trying to take your money." (1991)
  • "It's our band, you know.  We started it from nothing and we own it, and I want people to trust it.  It's not for sale."

But you are - of course - entitled to your own opinions & response to this current situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

totally diff topic but it's also causing outrage for me this week 

UNESCO world heritage building. vvv

image.png.7d14023cf2c6c3138a0f3188f0636d3c.png

sometimes used for Vivid Festival as a backdrop for art vvv

image.png.29a3ea44e216a22ae94c1ae18627a890.png

THEY suddenly decided to use it for horse racing advertisement

no that's not a selfie-generation crowd vvv

it's folks protesting by all shining lots of torches on the sails & cancelling out the projected images

hee hee hee

Protesters shine lights on the Sydney Opera House as controversial advertising for the Everest horse race is projected on its sails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

From what I could recall, (and I'm sure he'll appear if I misrepresent him) Shelter thought a better approach would be for the band to vary the set list from tour to tour and within the show itself, vary up how some songs are played, extended jams one night, straight rendition the next.

Did I say all that? Could be. Knowing me, I probably went on endlessly, rambling on about the distinction between the Music and the Branding. That is, the difference between traveling ankle deep in and with your music passion, being original (riding the river, wherever it goes), and traveling with a tightly scripted ritual, designed to reinforce your brand, trying to live up to it, chasing your shadow, as it were, if ever so evocatively (I won't back down!).

The smart thing to do, obviously, is - like Pearl Jam, you say - to make dynamic your brand, to make that type of ride the expectation that people will have. Or put the other way around, to not letting you being a highly successful and profitable professional, stop you from also keeping it real, not only real within the limits of one basic design, but real for real, so to speak. That way you won't have to worry about the herds of less imaginative people telling you that if you don't do the exact same core show over and over, people will stop coming.  

Alas. No use repeating all these details of a thousand past discussions. Especially since it is what it is now, and it can never be changed. So what, if some of us dreamed of them using their magic skills for more stuff - inside and outside the cataloge? So what if some of us saw certain logical flaws to all the "reasons" why they shouldn't ("Tom is the best!" being my favorite)? I guess the basic truth and value in all of it is something we all can agree on. That is, when it comes to h-o-w they actuallly did their thing, TPATH performances were over and beyond all other bands. And brands. To me the latter era sameness (from tour to tour, most notably, but also over the cause of a single tour - the latter would not be so much of an issue, if it wasn't for the former) may seem like some sort of waste of talent, in the big scheme of things. Some sort of misguided "perfectionism" or "integrity" on Tom's behalf, if you will. Misguided, since really it's a technical perfectionism only, that, moreover, they could've upheld in other ways than through this certain type of over repetition that they got themself stuck in over time. Someone else, of course, may like to come to a show well prepared, and I resepect that. To them the genius of Tom may have been exactly that, that he did stick to the formula, refined his specific act. There is no denying how great it was seeing these guys play these songs. Their performances, to all of us who saw them, just like all of their music will, indeed shine forever.. much like a diamond, as it were.

Seems like I took the bate, damn you. I appeared... just to show that I had one more post on this subject in me. Go figure.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well here's the official word (from Ryan, posting on SHF) regarding the involvement of the band/family (emphasis mine):

1) The vinyl was cut from the 26 bit 96K Hi Res Digital Master, with extended dynamic range (as is the case with An American Treasure). This Digital master was sourced from the original master tapes (or original Hi-Res Digital masters for the later songs, like "I Should Have Known It", that were never mixed to analog tape.) The reason vinyl was not cut directly from the tapes is that this is a compilation of songs, pulled from various albums, with different analog tape sizes, speed, alignments and also includes masters in digital formats. Impossible to compile in the analog world. 

2) The vinyl refs came from Pallas USA/Furnace. They are real good!

3) The family and band mates (and me) were involved in the track selection and order.

4) The version of "The Best Of Everything" is the same remixed version on An American Treasure, but with the additional "lost" verse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Shelter said:

I probably went on endlessly, rambling on about the distinction between the Music and the Branding

I think we all went on endlessly. At the same time, it made for some interesting (if repetitive) discussions and was frankly championing more of TPATH's music being performed, not just at residencies but on regular tours and with intent that such a switch would bring a new energy to the band on stage and make for some incredible performances.

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

to not letting you being a highly successful and profitable professional, stop you from also keeping it real, not only real within the limits of one basic design, but real for real, so to speak. That way you won't have to worry about the herds of less imaginative people telling you that if you don't do the exact same core show over and over, people will stop coming.  

 And it wasn't just us arguing along these lines (not just as as well but other fans who were also dissatisifed with the sets) but at least, as far as one could tell Mike and Benmont as well. Now very little every squeeked out from the camp but it did a little on this issue. It wasn't just a small group of fans on a message board critiquing the set lists but two of the band as well. I can understand someone seeing the same show on multiple nights if the band is playing an album, doing an album tour that's a little different. But I never quite understood how people saw multiple shows on the same tour when nearly everything was virtually the same. Then I'd just figure welp, everyone's different and move on. To me, the worst was when TPATH played multiple nights in the same place and played the same set with maybe one song being different. 

COFFEE NON MAXWELL HOUSE BREAK

  A dark French Roast in a souvenir mug, no cream, no sugar.

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

Alas.

 Yes, it's all moot now. Well, it was moot then too we just didn't know it or sometimes thought Tom would hold to the pre-tour interviews. I remember how excited people were when Fault Lines were played and the slow realization that it wouldn't be again. Alas. Yep.

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

So what, if some of us dreamed of them using their magic skills for more stuff - inside and outside the cataloge? So what if some of us saw certain logical flaws to all the "reasons" why they shouldn't ("Tom is the best!" being my favorite)? I guess the basic truth and value in all of it is something we all can agree on.

Yes, sometimes it felt as if some fans thought the set list criticisms were an attack or something on Tom or the band and even at their most heated they were never about that. Would it have been that much of a big deal to not end nearly every main set with ISHKI, Refugee and Runnin'? Or to pull out some deep cuts? Or to take your suggestion and having changed it tour to tour, found unique performances each night from the same set? What if I Won't Back Down had been a rollicking six minute jam? Or a Mellotron version of Free Fallin one night but regular the next? Epic Mary Jane's Last Dance or regular version? Etc.

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

may seem like some sort of waste of talent, in the big scheme of things. Some sort of misguided "perfectionism" or "integrity" on Tom's behalf, if you will. Misguided, since really it's a technical perfectionism only, that, moreover, they could've upheld in other ways than through this certain type of over repetition that they got themself stuck in over time. 

 I think the improv at Red Rocks, whatever one may think of it, shows what could've been or just a peek at the energy that Benmont brought to the stage when he suddenly was able to lead the way forward for a tune. Given the opportunity he took it. Just imagine how good the shows would've been if they were constantly working in deep cuts or trying out different versions of songs. Isn't that the saying, a change can be as good as a break? This band had massive talent and while they went on some neat directions in concert, surely there could have been more musical exploration than what was done with Its Good To Be King. And l like that song live!

The discussions, as intense as they could get online, were about wanting the band to pull off something genuine, not scripted, or not like Mike having to make himself get into a certain mindset to play the same song with passion. The band's combined talent was like having a great racecar but running it in circles on the same track, instead of driving through the flimsy fence and onto the wide open road.

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

Seems like I took the bate, damn you. I appeared...

Ha ha!

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

just to show that I had one more post on this subject in me. Go figure.

 Who knew there'd be a coda to the subject in this topic? I guess when you don't follow a script this sort of thing can happen. 

For those who like set list discussions and live reviews and fan created fantasy set lists, give the board a search and enjoy. For those who don't, perhaps this was indeed the final word on the topic, at least from Mr. Shelter and myself. Who knows?

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chimera said:

3) The family and band mates (and me) were involved in the track selection and order.

Wow, even stranger. I wonder if the record company was going to do this regardless and so the band had input. I still don't like it nor the flow of the songs on there and again, Greatest Hits (1993 unaltered cover and all) remains to me, the best compilation for the band; you reach the end and go from Something In The Air to American Girl, it is a fun disc and can even be a big hit at parties.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×