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Hoodoo Man

WTH??? Best of everything 11/9/18??

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9 hours ago, High Grass Dog said:

I don't think it's a greed thing or anything bad.

Oh, you just don't see the greed for the thick smoke of rapacity in the air. ;) 

As for overlap, I find way more than half of it to overlap with earlier collections. But as a collection for christmas shopping none fans, it's still a good fun ride, of course. It's just really hard to ignore what they try to do with the inclusion of two rare tracks here... (There's a special circle in Hell for those kinda things! Some say it's the inner circle, what Hell is made of, but personally I think that may be just a slight exaggeration.)

And what they try to do with the timing does not help them, whoever they are, to look like decent folks either. This is certainly a I-don't-care release for me as well. Still, I can't help but vent how utterly sucky it's handled.

The good, heartfelt vibe of AAT, the hope  and the slowly coming to terms with the fact that Tom is gone, that I been starting to feel lately, now all have taken a real bad beating, first from FM's shameful drama queen display of Free Fallin, now this cynical blow. Nah, it's really time to suit up in rhino again, I suppose, not letting the bastards grind us down. For real? For Real!

Like it's said, it' not 1993 anymore. Good point! Like modern people, with free hearts and free internet, I hope we are all gonna pirate their soggy Warner asses, by sharing the two songs aimed at fans on this collection, freely and generously among ourselves. 

 

 

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I think they should put out live concert DVDs of Tom Petty - such as "Take the Highway" and Pack Up the Plantation"......as there is enough albums and a new box set of American Treasure.   Most of the greatest songs were released by Tom Petty.    As for this "Best of Everything" box set.....poor timing.   Also, how did the record company obtain a new track "for real" and the alternate version of Southern Accents?   Was this something locked in the vault?   How would they have gotten that?   All I can say is when people pass away, everyone associated with them tries to make money left and right....that's the sad reality of it.

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I welcome the release of American Treasure. I would have loved if they did Playback 2 box set 1994 - 2017 timeline with a super deluxe option of Playback 1 & 2 combined for those who didn't have Playback already. I would love if Playback 2 was something that those who put American Treasure together took on as a specific project for the future...something for the 50th anniversary of the band or indeed sooner with Looking For Daddy, Somewhere Under Heaven, The Woods and others included.

I would be a bit more comfortable if the new song on this latest greatest hits package was already included on American Treasure....

I don't have a problem per sae on the release of a new greatest hits package, but would question it's timing in light of maybe giving American Treasure more of a clear run as a standalone release...what is right and proper and what goes as acceptable in ''show business'' has always been a murky affair unfortunately.

I want Playback 2 :)  

 

  

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This really irritates me coming so close to An American Treasure.  I don't know how it can not be seen as a cash grab coming so close to that release and just in time for Black Friday shopping.  I have to wonder if the two unreleased tracks will be available as a separate down load on iTunes or whatever or if they will only be available with the full album purchase as I recall seeing for special releases like this in the past.   I know its been ages since a real original TP album was released so we could almost view this as an embarrassment of riches but to me knowing what Tom stood for and how he didnt want to disappoint fans  I see it as an embarrassment.  

Give us All the Rest not some regurgitation of what I already have and have paid for. 

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5 hours ago, twisterseal said:

Also, how did the record company obtain a new track "for real" and the alternate version of Southern Accents?   Was this something locked in the vault?   How would they have gotten that? 

I would assume that WMG licensed those two tracks from UMG along with all the other material which is under UMG's purview.  I've since read elsewhere that "For Real" was likely from the sessions for the version of "Surrender" which is on Anthology: Through The Years.  But if you're going to call a collection The Best of Everything and not have "The Best of Everything" on it?  That's just not right, so I suppose the real reason I'm not so upset is we finally get to hear a professionally-mastered version of the full track.

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What most people don't understand is the music business! They just know how to listen to music. Most of us work in factories or for other people and get paid by the hour. Most don't do shit and still get a check at the end of the week for doing nothing. The music business is a whole different world. You don't get paid every week or two like most people, you get paid when you write, record and release a single or LP and hope it sells. And that may take years!!!! And even then, you may only get penny's on every dollar a CD costs. The real money comes from touring, that eventually takes its toll on the artist, as we have seen many times. Releasing multiple records at any time is not greed, it's survival. What do you do when your company closes and you have no job or income???????? Stop and think before you talk, you may be in that situation before you know it. God bless Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, they are still with us.

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18 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

whereas he promoted  American Treasure & seems really proud of the collective effort that produced it - labor of love & cathartic in a time of grief...

 I agree. Whether you like the box set or don't, the band very much wanted the fans to know what their thinking was regarding this grouping of songs, how some mattered to the family, how the band wanted to share different takes and unreleased songs and while the format wasn't for my preference, their feelings of respect for their bandleader and collaborations rang true.

This does indeed seem like a big corporate cash in, with a thrown together song order, a hodgepodge, Frankenstein's monster.

But...I feel I overreacted in my initial posting regarding it and while it is annoying, perhaps infuriating for some, I think it's nothing for me to  be worked up about. I still think it's a cruddy thing to do but if fans want to purchase it, that's their business.

But I think there is really only one true Greatest Hits album by TPATH and that's the edition that came out in 1993. Those are hits, songs people love and recognize. In that way it's a muscular album, in one record every major hit. 

True enough Walls, YDKHIF and Girl on LSD aren't on there but...the last is a novelty joke song. The middle one in my opinion is part of a whole new phase for the band and is completely different than the other songs and only Walls feels close enough to properly fit but again, is from later in the band's career.

So I think Greatest Hits, is pretty much untouchable and the perfect album for the casual fan. It's either all they need or the chance for them to dig deeper into TPATH's albums. The Best of Everything wasn't needed and the timing is indeed weird, here...another collection of songs you already own plus a pittance of unreleased music. That's record company cash grab 101.

cheers

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30 minutes ago, nurktwin said:

And that may take years!!!! And even then, you may only get penny's on every dollar a CD costs. The real money comes from touring, t

 Yes and there's no denying how badly paid (relative to the company) the musicians usually were, let alone not having the rights to their music, bad contracts, etc.

30 minutes ago, nurktwin said:

Releasing multiple records at any time is not greed, it's survival.

TPATH are not some independent band; they are one of the most successful and beloved groups in rock-n-roll and while I'm not their accountant and frankly it's none of my business what they make and I even feel weird discussing other's finances, be they millionaires or neighbors, the point is, I would hope that all of them are doing all right and need not ever work a 9 to 5 job the rest of their lives. I don't think that's a stretch.

So while the release of the album might be over survival of record execs which I understand, it could also just be a cash grab where greed is the motivating factor. It also was stupid to release something like that so close to this; and the relative silence or total silence from the band says a lot about how they feel about it. I would figure Greatest Hits continues to churn in money for them anyway, the record company.

34 minutes ago, nurktwin said:

What do you do when your company closes and you have no job or income???????? Stop and think before you talk, you may be in that situation before you know it. God bless Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, they are still with us.

 On this I agree and so do feel a bit weird discussing the finances. But it's true that record companies have a history of gouging fans and robbing artists and so peoples' initial negative reactions to the box set don't seem like hysteria but an understandable disgust both with timing, packaging and the cheap shot of two unreleased songs as incentive. But yes, God Bless everyone, here at the Mudcrutch Form and for having our health, money and jobs and the music of TPATH. 

cheers

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On October 5, 2018 at 2:26 PM, chimera said:

If anything, I'm offended that they photoshopped the cover.  I mean, if they didn't want to use a photo with Tom holding a cigarette then they didn't have to 

I agree. I hate smoking but leave the photo alone or just pick a different one as you said, it's not like there's a shortage of pictures. Heck, I bet some of the ladies on here would love to have picked what photo they went with and would've made a good decision. And would've enjoyed looking at all the record company photo vaults. Heck maybe that should be the next cash grab, the Tom Petty Make Ya Swoon Photo Album. Could have a holographic cover where he cocks his eyebrow and a microchip in the cover has him say "...you're my honey bee." 

 

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1 hour ago, nurktwin said:

!!!! And ????????

There you go. At least we can always count on you to stop and think before any final judgements are passed.

Of course you are more than free to your perspective, and I'm glad you keep on the sunny side and are able to see ups rather than downs in today's business ethics. In fact I envy that part. I really appreciate the aspects you bring up as well, and I agree... people don't think about these things enough. 

If they did think about them some more, they'd soon realize how sick and depraved things are, the things we think as normal cause we are told they are normal, but are they really? Ah.. the business side of show business. Nothing new under the sun. 

That said, "survival" is not a concept that comes to mind here, especially not given the circumstances surrounding this release. Even if I realize that people need to make money, I don't think it at all uncalled for to ask oneself these questions, at least now and then: what people? how much money? at what time? on what? in what way? under what circumstances? to what cost (yeah, ironic, that one)?

As you can tell, I don't stop and think much. (And maybe that is why I find it disorienting when people accept things they are able to explain, no matter how crooked the morale, or how backwards the explanation. It may also be why our politics look the way it does? That we just accept the void, and even cheer for it?)

Now, I am sure a lot of people will do some surviving on the back of this release. As mentioned, I'm also happy for all the record buying none fans and new fans, for whom TBOE will be a treasure and/or starting point for great discoveries (and expenses) to come. But I hope you excuse me for still thinking the hows and whens of it all, to be less than charming. It's almost like someone didn't stop and think before they clicked the "go" button on the details of this, wouldn't you say?

Humbly.

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For my part, I do understand more than a few things about the music business, and the entertainment world in general.  I've been in and around it for at least a couple decades now.  So I would hope that my commentary comes across as somewhat more measured and nuanced.  And if not, well, that's what I'm attempting to impart so I apologize if I'm not communicating as well as I could.  It's not something I'm going to be an asshole about but if I'm pushed, well...

That said, have I witnessed blatant opportunism and greed in the music business?  Yes I have.  Some artists don't get to benefit at all from archival releases, or very little.  They may not make any money off their publishing and more from performance royalties and that as well as the soft market in physical sales is why you have so many legacy artists touring these days.  I certainly understand the desire for and the allure of such things and there is certainly a way to do it right.  Ultimately for me the biggest question is: is the legacy of the artist/band being enhanced by such activity?   Because in the end your legacy is all you have.  And I know actual professionals in the industry who agree with me on that point.

Those legacy bands who are doing very well for themselves (one of which I cited in my previous blind item example) - that is the consideration they should hold above all others.  I don't believe it is cogent to state that TPATH is one of those bands who needs to exploit its' legacy for survival purposes.  That is simply not true.

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I'm really pissed off with this new release. I said this thing the last week in the "American Treasure" thread about the "alternate take" of "The best of everything" included in the American Treasure box:

"The best of everything". They say this track belongs to the SA sessions.... yes? Well, it is the same track used in SA, and we all know that this track belongs to the HP sessions. The main difference (in my ears) between the album track and this "alternate take" is a keyboard. The album track has a keyboard, and this alternate take don't. Apart from that keyboard, little things, little details, but the basic tracks are just the same. I think it would be a better and a more interensting choice, to put into the box the "naked basic tracks" wtithout the overdubs made by Robbie Robertson. I want to hear "The best of everything" without the layers added by Robbie. There is, at least, one early live performance of this song from the early eighties  with an extra verse. Maybe they have recorded this extra verse, I don't know, and maybe Robbie cut that verse to make the song more suitable... It is only a speculation. In any case a naked version without the horns it would be a more interesting thing."

Now I know that i was right. But the natural place to  this take is the American Treasure box. Two compilations in a row with a bunch of songs that we all already have it's not an elegant way to pay tribute to Tom. Well, at least this is my point of view. Tom's heirs don't know about his fight against the price rise before the Hard Promises release?

If you reach back in your memory a little bell might ring, about a time that once existed when money wasn't king...

Well, it seems that Tom's heritage is in the hands of that guy named Joe. Yes, that guy that makes the big wheels roll.

 

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3 minutes ago, chimera said:

Ultimately for me the biggest question is: is the legacy or the artist/band being enhanced by such activity?   Because in the end your legacy is all you have.

Amen! A very self sustained argument, if I ever saw one. The implications is... just stop and think about it... really. Good one.

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14 minutes ago, chimera said:

The version of that track which is on this new collection does have the extra verse.

Yes, in the new release. I was talking about the "alternate take" included into the American Treasure before knowing about this new release.

You can call me mean minded. But I guess the first intention was to include the extra verse version version into the AT box. But later, someone thought that it will be fit better in a new compilation tittled "The best of everything". 

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2 hours ago, chimera said:

The version of that track which is on this new collection does have the extra verse.

 All right, all right, I'll let you in on some secret information since some are up-in-arms over this release. Concerning this song, the extra verse is just about the joys of Maxwell House coffee, so you can skip it. 

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I don't understand why people here think this is such a travesty. It's just a greatest hits release. What's the big deal with this being released so close to An American Treasure? I for one am glad they are speeding up the timetable on releases, getting something like this out of the way now so 2019 can be devoted to Wildfowers All the Rest and maybe a Fillmore box set or whatever else they have in store that is actually interesting. How frustrating would it be if they "saved" this greatest hits release for next year, ostensibly to not interfere with the American Treasure box set, which would then cause the Wildfowers, etc., releases themselves to wait another year? There's no point in doing that!

I guess they could have announced this release concurrently with American Treasure (for symmetry and transparency), but I'm also glad they focused all the recent marketing/publicity efforts on the much more interesting release. There would be no reason to hold in-depth interviews with Mike Campbell about "Free Fallin" or "Refugee" or have an album release excitement over something that everyone here has heard thousands of times and owns several times over. It's such an easy decision not to buy this (again, as long as "For Real" makes its way online), that it's a no-brainer. This kind of project isn't targeted to us. I just don't see why anyone here would care.

Again, you could argue the actual composition of this release (I HATE that its not chronological, and that some key songs are left off), but the concept of the release itself is totally legit and justifiable.

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1 hour ago, High Grass Dog said:

I don't understand why people here think this is such a travesty. It's just a greatest hits release. What's the big deal with this being released so close to An American Treasure?

 This is my take. There's a history of record companies gorging themselves after a famous musician's death by releasing tons of unreleased material of dubious quality or constantly repackaging albums that have already been sold. This release feels like that because it is basically older tunes and two unreleased songs. Mike and Benmont have given interviews regarding the thought process behind AAT with regards to the material on there. This new double album feels like a bunch of random tunes thrown together, padded out onto two discs since after Walls Tom effectively stopped having hits by my rubric which is widely played songs that the casual listener would recognize.

In the greater scheme of things it's not a big deal at all and that's why, while I didn't walk back my earlier criticisms, I realized that I didn't need to spew such vitriol. Who cares, right? I ain't buyin' it, others will, life goes on.

But...since this is a forum dedicated to TPATH and the band of its namesake, it makes sense that people would want to discuss this, or critique it or outright criticize since it feels like the exact sort of thing most fans, especially hardcore ones dislike, which is quick cash grabs and trying to lure fans into paying for 98% of songs they have to get to own that 2%. 

1 hour ago, High Grass Dog said:

getting something like this out of the way now so 2019 can be devoted to Wildfowers All the Rest and maybe a Fillmore box set or whatever else they have in store that is actually interesting. How frustrating would it be if they "saved" this greatest hits release for next year, ostensibly to not interfere with the American Treasure box set,

 But they could have not released it at all and not delayed future releases. They probably figure the band is going to want to release All The Rest and maybe a Fillmore set so they better get this out quickly before people end up putting aside money for those albums and nothing for The Best of Everything. My point is, while releasing this now is better than releasing it next year and delaying things, even better would be not releasing it at all, in my opinion.

1 hour ago, High Grass Dog said:

Again, you could argue the actual composition of this release (I HATE that its not chronological, and that some key songs are left off), but the concept of the release itself is totally legit and justifiable.

 I think it's unnecessary. Most of these songs are on some of Tom and TPATH's most popular albums and the rest seem like random tracks thrown on here. I think the very point you dislike, the non-chronological order (which I agree with you in this case) is further proof this was thrown together quickly since it looks like it will have a poor flow to it.

  It may be a budgetary issue as well, having people spend different sums of money for AAT and quickly tossing this out shortly after could make people feel a bit of a financial pain; while I"m not a TPATH completist, some are and I can only figure that it could annoy them on some level to not own this. And the record company knows this. But this is just speculation. 

Overall, it's a bunch of songs most people own, it's filled with material the casual fan may not have an interest in and thus clutter up the experience versus Greatest Hits which is the perfect collection and having two unreleased tunes makes it feel like they have no respect for the fans, that people who own these songs will be driven to purchase yet another collection just to have them.

While I'm no fan of AAT and the way they did it, I recognize that the approach seemed to come from the heart and that Mike and Ben did their best to share some versions of songs not heard before, even down to the selection of the deep cuts in lieu of the big hits for the most part.

This collection well...I've gone on over and over about this. 

I agree though, it's not worth getting too worked up over. BUT...this is the best place to discuss it (I think it would instantly put anyone to sleep in my own life if broached) and there's probably an exaggeration to online communication. I think people are worked up about it but nowhere how it may seem and probably forget about it as soon as they're away from this place.

cheers

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3 hours ago, High Grass Dog said:

I don't understand why people here think this is such a travesty. It's just a greatest hits release.

These already exist:

  • Greatest Hits 1993 which is already a giant in terms of sales over the years & people's enduring love 
  • Anthology: Through the years 2000 (most if not all from Greatest Hits 1993 plus some more in a carefully created set.)

Intense emotions? Some people not liking anger?  I hear you.  Yet, equally, from my cultural background anger is appropriate emotion to some situations & a strong motivation for constructive action.  (FYI from Psalm 145 gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.)  :wub:

  • Because this is a band that's protected their creative independence & has never been for sale (avoided corporate sponsorship etc).
  • This is a band that promoted new work with the attitude that "you know, we're really proud of this and think it might just be the best one yet." (Except - admittedly - albums from times of stress or sorrow.)
  • This is a band that always tried to avoid being a "live jukebox" - recognizing that for concerts there were a) some classic songs people would be disappointed if they didn't hear but also b) a band needs always to grow & evolve and create new songs.
  • This is a band that learnt from the boring cover on Hard Promises & always tried to create an interesting cover art.

PS spot the difference between 2 album covers for GH yes they retrospectively airbrushed out Benmont & Howie's cigarettes.  So they do have form!

 

image.png.8ee4dd22dfeccc910badf815053cd89c.pngTomPettyAnthology.jpg

 

image.png

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Overall, it's a bunch of songs most people own, it's filled with material the casual fan may not have an interest in and thus clutter up the experience versus Greatest Hits which is the perfect collection and having two unreleased tunes makes it feel like they have no respect for the fans, that people who own these songs will be driven to purchase yet another collection just to have them.

While I'm no fan of AAT and the way they did it, I recognize that the approach seemed to come from the heart and that Mike and Ben did their best to share some versions of songs not heard before, even down to the selection of the deep cuts in lieu of the big hits for the most part.

also what MH2ndLD said ^^^^^^   (minus the part of "While I'm no fan of AAT and the way they did it") 

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