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MaryJane0612

To all you Peterans out there....

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I knew a man, his brain was so small
He couldn't think of nothing at all
Not the same as you and me
He doesn't dig poetry
He's so unhip that when you say Dylan
He thinks you're talking about Dylan Thomas
Whoever he was
The man ain't got no culture
But it's alright, ma, everybody must get stoned

- Simon & Garfunkel 

 

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Me neither. I respect their talent and drive and songwriting ability but that's about it. Oh, and if they're nice to fans, donate to charities and such.

Musicians hate being deified, it's a turn-off ... treated like plastic products on a shelf ... I took that from Pete Townshend.

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Speaking of 'deifying' musicians, I just remembered a great anecdote. 

So I'm in a HIT weight lifting program about a year ago, and my personal trainer was this older gentleman in his mid-fifties who enjoyed the music of Jim Nabors, Pat Boone, and the like okay? That's important to remember. He was really odd though, he had recently broken up with a girlfriend, but his daughter had bought him tickets to go see Bob Dylan with his friend. 

At first he wasn't going to go, because he refused to sell his ticket and sit next to a stranger, or give it to a friend and go to the concert with a man ... however, that's not the main point. The worst travesty of it all is that he had never heard Dylan's music, but felt he had to go because it was something that he should experience as he had heard so many people say how great Dylan was. 

Jump ahead to a few weeks later after he had gone to the concert, and I ask how it went - he said it was all right, that Dylan played ...and I quote, 'Suckin' in the wind' or whatever that was. . . now I myself like Dylan's music, and have never just feigned interest in a musician because Tom liked them ... to this day I cannot stand Elvis, and only select Beatles songs. 

Also, I am the ONLY one in my entire family (aside from my stepdad) to love Roy Orbison, who was close friends with Johnny Cash (who I like even fewer songs of) 

So que sera sera

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56 minutes ago, MuddyandMagnolia said:

and I quote, 'Suckin' in the wind' or whatever that was.

Ha ha ha!

56 minutes ago, MuddyandMagnolia said:

and have never just feigned interest in a musician because Tom liked them

 I can sort of understand someone curiously going to see someone they're unfamiliar with because of reputation though it seems like a big waste of time. Better to just pick up a record from the library and see how it sounds. Whenever I read about Tom (or anyone in the band) going on about Dylan I just shrugged internally. Even with the Heartbreakers backing him I didn't really care for his music. And yes, just because Tom or whomever respects someone doesn't mean I'll like their music. A concert is an expensive risk if you're unfamiliar with the music about to be played. "Suckin' in the wind" though cracked me up.

cheers

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1 hour ago, MuddyandMagnolia said:

only select Beatles songs

The Beatles are strange in that, there's a lot of songs I've liked and others I haven't but I just don't listen to them after an initial Beatles phase years ago. I don't know why that is. Not in the mood for them? Heard them too much over the years? The strong association with the 60s? Maybe just tired of them.

If I'm out and about somewhere and one that I like comes on I'll enjoy it but otherwise, it's rare. I've watched Yellow Submarine a bunch of times as well.

In the past decade I probably played more Beatles songs with friends on guitar than listened to them. I was talking to this guy where I work out, nice guy and he told me about when McCartney came into town and I just didn't care. I was even more turned off by the price of the tickets. And the guy was like but it's Paul McCartney! So? I don't need nor want to see him performing Beatles and Wings songs, I don't care. It feels like price gouging of the fans.

 I realize most of his audience can spend over hundreds on tickets but it still seems a crazy high price. 

cheers

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1 hour ago, MuddyandMagnolia said:

felt he had to go because it was something that he should experience as he had heard so many people say how great Dylan was

 In the end, it's your own personal take that matters. Who cares if someone likes the Beatles or Dylan or finds them dull? It's just everyone's taste. People loved the sitcom Friends and I thought it was unfunny. So? There's more important things in life than one's pop culture preferences. 

c'est tout

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On 29 September 2018 at 12:35 AM, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Nyet comrade. I meant people react that way to me not liking Dylan. It's like I'm treading willy-nilly across sacred texts, foundational as it were for rock music.

 

Yes, some say that claiming to dislike the Beatles is blasphemy. 

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Oh well, each to their own.  I find it interesting to peek  into the vaults & see where rock & roll music came from.  So that means being open to having at least one listen to some of the upstream sources.

You'd need to be hard-core to keep on listening to music if you don't like it.  One of the key things is having your own point of view, after all... From that classic song "Old Time Rock & Roll" here are some lyrics... hopefully amusingly appropriate!!

Just take those old records off the shelf 
I'll sit and listen to 'em by myself 
Today's music ain't got the same soul 

I like that old time rock 'n' roll 
Don't try to take me to a disco 
You'll never even get me out on the floor 

Won't go to hear them play a tango 
I'd rather hear some blues or funky old soul 
There's only one sure way to get me to go 
Start playing old time rock 'n' roll 

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^^ Not liking certain things, though, is one thing. Not understanding its importance and impact, its place in our cultural cosmos is another.

I suppose you will be able to breath, without being familiar with the existence of oxygen. But once you claim to understand even just the basics of air, wether you like it or not, you'll have to admit the key role of oxygene. Or.. just never mind this weird analogy..  or this post.. Just saying.

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or oxygen as I spell it - good analogy

As for me, I have distinct & happy early memory of listening to whole evening of Elvis on radio while painting the kitchen ceiling with my mother.  It would've been an anniversary of some sort & they had created this amazingly rich set-list as well as some anecdotes about him.  I definitely loved the music & his voice right away & remember him singing in German for some verses of Wooden Heart.  So I'm always gonna love Elvis.  I mean, what's not to like? 

In an amusing side story you may have heard of a kids' show called the Wiggles? They are Australian & the original core four are proper musicians who were in a rock & roll band called the Cockroaches.  One of them developed one of the worlds' largest collection of Elvis stuff & I believe donated some of it to a museum.  So when they are creating these boppy catchy numbers for toddlers, they are coming from a good musical basis.   Sorry about poor quality. 

 

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1 hour ago, Shelter said:

Not understanding its importance and impact, its place in our cultural cosmos is another.

Oh, I think everyone understands the impact! One could enjoy a modern film without being a fan of silent movies, while still understanding their place within the history of the form. I recognize the impact of Chuck Berry but I'd be lying if I said I listen to his music or know anything beyond Johnny B. Goode and the one TPATH used to play, Bye Bye Johnny.

cheers

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5 hours ago, Shelter said:

^^ Not liking certain things, though, is one thing. Not understanding its importance and impact, its place in our cultural cosmos is another.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, though. You can recognize that something is good and/or influential and not necessarily enjoy it. It's also entirely possible to enjoy stuff that's utter crap while admitting that it's utter crap.

It took me quite a few years to figure this out.

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22 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

The Beatles are strange in that, there's a lot of songs I've liked and others I haven't but I just don't listen to them after an initial Beatles phase years ago. I don't know why that is. Not in the mood for them? Heard them too much over the years? The strong association with the 60s? Maybe just tired of them.

If I'm out and about somewhere and one that I like comes on I'll enjoy it but otherwise, it's rare. I've watched Yellow Submarine a bunch of times as well.

In the past decade I probably played more Beatles songs with friends on guitar than listened to them. I was talking to this guy where I work out, nice guy and he told me about when McCartney came into town and I just didn't care. I was even more turned off by the price of the tickets. And the guy was like but it's Paul McCartney! So? I don't need nor want to see him performing Beatles and Wings songs, I don't care. It feels like price gouging of the fans.

 I realize most of his audience can spend over hundreds on tickets but it still seems a crazy high price. 

cheers

I hate Paul McCartney most of all ... yes, I said hate, that's strong but will work in a pinch. I ain't perfect. I was once gifted a personal autograph by Rip Torn, but after what he did to my beloved Dennis Hopper, I couldn't give a fig and sold it for a nice chunk of change instead.

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5 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

Oh well, each to their own.  I find it interesting to peek  into the vaults & see where rock & roll music came from.  So that means being open to having at least one listen to some of the upstream sources.

You'd need to be hard-core to keep on listening to music if you don't like it.  One of the key things is having your own point of view, after all... From that classic song "Old Time Rock & Roll" here are some lyrics... hopefully amusingly appropriate!!

Just take those old records off the shelf 
I'll sit and listen to 'em by myself 
Today's music ain't got the same soul 

I like that old time rock 'n' roll 
Don't try to take me to a disco 
You'll never even get me out on the floor 

Won't go to hear them play a tango 
I'd rather hear some blues or funky old soul 
There's only one sure way to get me to go 
Start playing old time rock 'n' roll 

My sister HATES Bog Seger so much that it makes me laugh. I mean HATES. XD 

The two of us are extremely picky and wouldn't listen to anything we don't like, in fact if you give me the time I'll tell you what's not to like about Elvis, and a few factoids as well 

His hair was dyed, Elvis' natural color was brown
He met his wife Priscilla in Germany during his military service, he was in his twenties, she was 14... they didn't marry until years later 

 

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11 minutes ago, nobodyinparticular said:

The two aren't mutually exclusive, though.

Yeah, and that's kinda exactly what I meant. It's not only possible, it's to be recommended to combine the perspectives. That you might need to see the two levels simultaneously, no matter your personal preference. It's just that dismissing or appreciating things has a tendency to be rather exclusive with people. You love this. And you hate that. I know for a fact that Dylan's voice - for example - stop people from realizing that he changed the world. That's why I said what I said. My point is exactly that everything goes, but that there is a distinction to be upheld between subjectively and ovjectively. Now this may go without saying, and I already kinda regret sayin it. But now I'm gonna defend it furiously.. 😎

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Look, before this descends to pistols at dawn, my point is I guess it's not whether I like them (though I do)...

It's whether they were upstream sources who influenced Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers :wub:  & could be interesting listening for TPATH fans who want to explore beyond the more obvious hits.  Which is I believe kinda what the original thread question asks... 

And yes, 100% agree that it's true that musicians can produce great music and also do bad bad things.  Creating music doesn't guarantee moral or ethical choices.  

Long list is far beyond my ability to create.  Quick short list might include musical icons worth a bit of respect like:  

  • Chuck Berry
  • Elvis
  • Bob Dylan 
  • Beatles 
  • Stones

You're free to listen to what you want.  I'll always be delighted if you tell me what you like listening to if you think I might like it too.  I ain't gonna argue with anyone.

 

 

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Hello Farmers.  I was too quick to take offense & read stuff between the lines of what was written.  Sorry!  :huh:

  • I realize I assumed that people who love TPATH (& that's all of us here) also love music that TPATH drew on for inspiration.  Or - new idea - can it be possible to love TPATH music in isolation from other similar music?  
  • This absolutely puzzles me - jaw on the floor... I am examining my earlier assumption with an open mind, okay?  And you people could really help me out, if you would like to, that is...  I'm curious about this.  So if anyone would like to comment, I'm interested to hear.  If not, that's cool too. We all mean well.  

For just one example - Chuck Berry.  (I'm happy to leave Bob Dylan out of this.) How can anyone respond TPATH music but not Chuck Berry music? Or like Chuck Berry but not care for TPATH? TPATH is soaked through by the Chuck Berry sound... And they said they loved his music.  Apparently MC has a photo in his music studio of when he met CB. BT recently said he's so sad that he can never play Chuck Berry with Tom anymore (sniff, pause to wipe tear).  And in the making of D the T they show us the exact moment where they use two strings just so they can get that "Chuck Berry sound".  (And yes, I do know CB  was in prison for sex crimes & tax evasion.) 

  • Honestly, what's going on?  Care to share? Happy to go beyond Chuck Berry, who I use only as an example.   I am interested in this issue at the level of your reactions to music & why you love what you love.
  • I'm not saying you must like him (or other music inspirations that TPATH drew on).  I'm not saying anything about treating anyone like gods or talking blasphemy. I'm not shouting "my band's better than your band"  in a bar-room fight...as an Indian shoots out the light... I'm not questioning anyone's taste...

:) Amusing aside: In movie Sliding Doors a character (James) says "The Beatles? They ought to be called The Foetals. Everyone is born already knowing all their lyrics."  

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12 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

How can anyone respond TPATH music but not Chuck Berry music? Or like Chuck Berry but not care for TPATH? TPATH is soaked through by the Chuck Berry sound... And they said they loved his music. 

This absolutely puzzles me - jaw on the floor... I am examining my earlier assumption with an open mind, okay?  And you people could really help me out, if you would like to, that is...  I'm curious about this.  So if anyone would like to comment, I'm interested to hear.

I recognize some of the Chuck Berry influence here and there and I realize the impact he had for Tom and Mike etc. But what's key is while he influenced them it's their own creativity I respond to.

When I like someone's music or books that doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy every prior work that influenced or inspired them. Heck sometimes when I've followed an artist's recommendation I've been pleased but many a time, disappointed. It's quite liberating when you realize you don't have to like something because critics do or its historical significance.

Sure here and there I can catch some of the Berry influence in Mike's playing but if that's all he'd been able to do I'd not listen to him. In fact, the more derivative they are (Saving Grace, Forgotten Man, Lonesome Dave) the weaker the result in my opinion, though I like two of those songs and Lonesome Dave is all right overall.

It's what they did together as musicians and bringing Tom's songs to life that work for me, their unique sound and while they respect, admire are influenced by Chuck Berry or Bob Dylan, that has no bearing on me, nor do I feel obligated to like what helped them on their path. Tom liked George Harrison's ukelele playing or perhaps some of ELO but that doesn't interest me. 

I don't know if this explained anything really. I think while one can point out elements of a song one likes, the initial appeal is something mysterious, perhaps much the way someone falls in love (or lust), there's chemistry at first and later come the explanations.

cheers

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