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Wildflowers (the album) and a bunch of other stuff

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A: 500 songs in 40ish years according to setlist fm

That 500 is including their own music plus covers of others. 

Looks like a classic long tail distribution graph - "a few songs played a lot",  all the way through to "a lot of songs"* played a few times. 

 

* not many enough at this end?  I think we can fairly safely say this is how you (& other set-list-ers) feel strongly. B)

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18 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Oh well (including the cover of Fleetwood Mac's "Oh Well" - frankly I'd have rather heard one of TPATH's own songs).   

Truly one of the most wretched covers they'd ever done.

In the middle of the show (or first quarter) here comes a fast number with Tom playing maraccas. Who cares? I'm not here for Fleetwood Mac, play one of your countless original tunes, something upbeat! If they didn't want to go back that deep for Finding Out or Makin Some Noise or What Are You Doing In My Life,, why not Jammin Me or Too Much Ain't Enough?

Oh Well was just a terrible moment live, a real boring song considering its an upbeat one too. Looking back on it, probably part of the reason (a small part) why that was the last tour I ever saw them on.

cheers

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4 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

A: 500 songs in 40ish years according to setlist fm

That 500 is including their own music plus covers of others. 

Looks like a classic long tail distribution graph - "a few songs played a lot",  all the way through to "a lot of songs"* played a few times. 

Wow, I didn't know about that Setlist FM distribution chart.   Did they really play "Gloria" 131 times, and tell that story every time?  And they actually did play "Hurt", "Restless", "Letting You Go" and "The Same Old You" at least once each?  I never knew that.    

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/tom-petty-and-the-heartbreakers-6bd6e20a.html

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32 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

"The Same Old You" at least once each? 

Nice find! 2nd last song...interesting spot for it; I wonder if it was something spontaneous or considered; did they stretch it out a bit or play it close to the album. And will a soundboard of it ever emerge? Assuming it's true...

cheers

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:
2 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

"The Same Old You" at least once each? 

Nice find! 2nd last song...interesting spot for it; I wonder if it was something spontaneous or considered; did they stretch it out a bit or play it close to the album. And will a soundboard of it ever emerge? Assuming it's true...

Good points.  But also a good point wondering if it's true.  From the "LivePetty" site there's a recording of that same date in Edinburgh (December 10, 1982), so did they also do a show Coventry that day?  Unlikely.  Especially if they also did an Edinburgh show on December 9.  Or was the date of the Coventry show wrong?  My guess is that the Coventry show - if there really was one - was actually between the Utrecht show (December 4) and Manchester (December 8).   That also might explain why "The Same Old You" was tried and dropped, early in the tour. 

But for more conflict and confusion, the website below claims there was a Coventry show on December 10, and it has the same setlist as Setlist FM.  Which of course could mean that both sources are relying on the same - possibly erroneous - source, or that one is relying on the other.

http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=665895

We can only hope that this is real and a recording exists.  But at this point there probably isn't one, unless the band itself recorded it and is still holding it tightly.  The above listing names "Mike Mono", which is also the name of an active poster on this website, so maybe he knows?  But according to that listing, he doesn't actually have the Coventry 1982 recording, if there is one.  So maybe he used the Setlist FM listing as a source for the etree listing.   

As an aside, I seem to recall a video showing a TPATH concert where a fan was holding up a sign that said "Sea on Fire" (it might have been from a documentary such as Behind the Music).  And I don't think it was a reference to "Learning To Fly" (maybe it was).  I had assumed at the time that the fan was mistakenly referring to the "City on Fire" line from The Same Old You and thought it was "Sea on Fire".  Does that ring a bell with anyone?  Or did I dream this?  Ok kind of off the track from "Wildflowers (the album)".   

 

 

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6 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Good observation,

Thank you for paying attention. Thanks for trying so hard to keep my stuff in the discussion.

7 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I think that's why it became either/or regarding covers.

Right. There you go again. Haha.. That's my whole point, the battle didn't have to be Two covers vs Two "deep cut". That's the misconception, to me. Came time to shave, two standards (of the usual dozen or more) could've had the knife for an evening, to make room for a lesser known cataloge piece or two. If 18-19 songs are played in a set, it's not fair to point to the one or two covers as being the problem! The problem was the sameness method, rather than any particular song, was it not?

That is most older Farmers know how I feel about scripts within the realms of rock. A Broadway play can (and should?) be more or less identical each night, for best effect. In my view a concert can and should be something else.

And the problems with reenactment, of course go for originals and covers alike. And some covers they played to death almost as much as some of their staples. Admittedly weird, since the "rule of the casual fan" cannot be said to apply. A cover should be a fun diversion for band/fans, a spice thrown in as it were, an inspirational moment. But after a hundred plays, hasn't it become a staple? If anything it really should be suspected to outstay it's welcome much sooner than any original, right?

So after so many times performed a cover really should give room occasionally for another song - cover or original - just like I think all songs should to a various degree. By this definition the likes of "Gloria", "Mystic Eyes", "Oh Well" really became the most tired and wasted moments of anything they ever played. Deadest of all dead horses. 

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1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Unlikely

Yes.. Setlist.fm is a great resource. But it's far from complete, and does have some suspicious gaps and  inconsistencies. Especially it lacks a lot of data from the first half of their career. Statistics, as usual, is to be taken with a handful of salt, that is. As an overall picture, though, it's great. And hopefully it's getting slowly better still... At least  most of recent years are fairly complete. (Incidentally, also those were years where the sets are the easiest to guestimate. As soon as you know one of the sets, chanses are you know them all). Either way, it's by far the best total source we have.

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12 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

A: 500 songs in 40ish years according to setlist fm

 That 500 is including their own music plus covers of others. 

Looks like a classic long tail distribution graph - "a few songs played a lot",  all the way through to "a lot of songs"* played a few times. 

 

* not many enough at this end?  I think we can fairly safely say this is how you (& other set-list-ers) feel strongly. B)

Not so fast, sunshine. Also a surge of 173 different songs while touring with Bob Dylan.  This includes songs written by Bob & songs that are covers.*   I have subtracted the songs by Heartbreakers that they played with Dylan as well as by themselves. (Includes Fooled Again, Refugee, Spike & The Waiting).

So far, we're currently up to 675 songs in 40ish years... Say they toured every 2 years, more or less? 675 divided by 20 touring years = about 33 songs per tour on average. Though, statistics warning (time to salt it up a bit): we know for sure it was more clustered than this (ie Lots of diversity during the Bob tours & things like the Fillmore residencies.  A neat 15 or so songs in a setlist for other tours.)

Still, all things considered - playing 675 different songs in concerts (that setlist fm has identified by a crowd-sourcing process so far)? Plus all their studio work, especially by Benmont Tench, which seems to reach heroic levels. 

Not looking too shabby, in my opinion. 

* PS including some by The Inkspots ❤️ when playing with Bob Dylan.  

 

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I got very excited at one point looking at the Livepetty site and found a bootleg of tour rehearsal songs and as many of you know they liked to just jam before tours and do whatever song came to mind.  So, I thought maybe I hit the jackpot as I didn't immediately recognize a lot of songs on it, turned out to be rehearsal for the Dylan tour.... so if your thing is Dylan or covers there is a boot out there for you!  

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9 hours ago, Shelter said:

Right. There you go again. Haha.. That's my whole point, the battle didn't have to be Two covers vs Two "deep cut".

I agree, but it's difficult to not see it that way when the band only plays so many songs, since they weren't going to drop a hit, the only choice is to drop a cover. Sure, they could've played both, could've done all sorts of things....I'll just stop there, you heard it all before, ha ha.

cheers

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9 hours ago, Shelter said:

A Broadway play can (and should?) be more or less identical each night, for best effect. In my view a concert can and should be something else.

I agree. And in the end, just my opinion, it's too bad the full power of the band wasn't let loose, be it trying random deep tracks, or randomly playing an extended version of a song they normally stuck close to the record and so on. I'm not a big fan of You Can Still Change Your Mind but the version Benmont did on his own is great! Oh well (not the song).

cheers

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10 hours ago, Shelter said:

By this definition the likes of "Gloria", "Mystic Eyes", "Oh Well" really became the most tired and wasted moments of anything they ever played. Deadest of all dead horses.

I agree 100%, very low points when these songs (and the "Gloria" story) were performed again and again. They aren't great songs, and they aren't original songs.  What was the point?  Even more frustrating - they were done at a career stage when Petty had so many of his own great songs going unplayed. 

According to Setlist FM, "Mystic Eyes" was played at 71 TPATH concerts, "Oh Well" played at 103, "Gloria" at 131.  In those cases, "too much" was too much.  What "ain't enough" were their own great songs getting played.    I'd really love to know what TP was thinking there.  Maybe he loved those 3 songs/stories.  I hope so.   Sadly unimportant at this point.  But it was frustrating back then. 

 

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22 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

 And they actually did play "Hurt", "Restless", "Letting You Go" and "The Same Old You" at least once each?  I never knew that.

I'm pretty confident "Restless" never was played and that that it is just posted on that site in error. I'm similarly not convinced that "Rockin' Around (With You)" was played once in 1977, as setlistfm claims. I bet it was first played at the two Irvine CA shows in 1983 (with one of the nights' recording of "Rockin'" making it onto Pack Up The Plantation). I think people's memories from the late 70s and early 80s is finicky and unreliable, and that's why there's so much discrepancy among early set lists/dating.

"Hurt" has, interestingly, always been included on that set list fm set. Given the versatility of the show they played the night before, it's not necessarily out of the realm of possibility that they played "Hurt" that night, but it just as easily could have been confused with "No Second Thoughts" (which did occasionally appear in the sets on that tour, including the set from the night before). Seems like we will never know!

As for "Letting You Go," I remember someone on the old TPHB bbs in the early 00s said they did hear it being played at a show in 1981, but unfortunately that show wasn't circulating among bootleggers so there's no way to confirm that.

As for "The Same Old You" and the 12-10-82 show, I can confirm that the song was played and that 12-10 is indeed the correct date that it was played. I don't have the full show, but I know that it previously circulated among traders years ago, and was of pretty poor quality, so I was always discouraged from seeking it out.

 

19 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

We can only hope that this is real and a recording exists.  But at this point there probably isn't one, unless the band itself recorded it and is still holding it tightly.  The above listing names "Mike Mono", which is also the name of an active poster on this website, so maybe he knows?  But according to that listing, he doesn't actually have the Coventry 1982 recording, if there is one.  So maybe he used the Setlist FM listing as a source for the etree listing.  

Good eye! I am the one who updated the sets on both db.etree and setlist fm.

And a recording of the song DOES exist: I have one! Though I don't have the full show, this one song from that night made it onto a bootleg compilation that some old TPHB bbs'ers circulated over a decade ago. It's a pretty sparse and muffled recording, and you mostly only hear the cowbell of the drums backing TP's rhythm guitar. I just uploaded it to my YouTube channel. Perhaps @Marion has the full show in her archive somewhere?

 

19 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

From the "LivePetty" site there's a recording of that same date in Edinburgh (December 10, 1982), so did they also do a show Coventry that day?  Unlikely.  Especially if they also did an Edinburgh show on December 9.  Or was the date of the Coventry show wrong?  My guess is that the Coventry show - if there really was one - was actually between the Utrecht show (December 4) and Manchester (December 8).   That also might explain why "The Same Old You" was tried and dropped, early in the tour. 

But for more conflict and confusion, the website below claims there was a Coventry show on December 10, and it has the same setlist as Setlist FM.  Which of course could mean that both sources are relying on the same - possibly erroneous - source, or that one is relying on the other.

The shows were mislabeled when they were originally posted to Dime a Dozen. My guess is that this was done purposefully in order to prevent the shows from being taken down (remember that Dime doesn't allow you to post shows with officially released tracks on them).

I have contacted the people who added the 12-10-82 show to their db.etree lists and it seems that they paid more attention to date than venue when adding the show to their lists, as they have all, in error, mistaken it for the 12-09 show, and they do not have the ACTUAL 12-10 show with "Same Old You" on it.

Upon consulting the very accurate tour itinerary on the Petty Archives, you can see that these are the surrounding European dates you're talking about (* next to shows hat are known to have been bootlegged):

1982-12-07 Wembley Stadium London [mislabeled by bootleggers as 12.12.82)*

1982-12-08 Manchester England*

1982-12-09 Edinburgh Scotland [mislabeled by bootleggers as 12.10.82]*

1982-12-10 Coventry England*

1982-12-12 Brighton England

1982-12-14 München Germany*

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3 hours ago, mikemono said:

And a recording of the song DOES exist: I have one! Though I don't have the full show, this one song from that night made it onto a bootleg compilation that some old TPHB bbs'ers circulated over a decade ago. It's a pretty sparse and muffled recording, and you mostly only hear the cowbell of the drums backing TP's rhythm guitar. I just uploaded it to my YouTube channel. Perhaps @Marion has the full show in her archive somewhere?

MikeMono - awesome!  Thanks so much for uploading "The Same Old You" from Coventry 1982 to YouTube.  The sound quality is definitely listenable.  Actually much better than I thought it would be.   

Thanks also for correcting the dates from that part of the tour.  That tour makes a lot more sense now. 

3 hours ago, mikemono said:

"Hurt" has, interestingly, always been included on that set list fm set. Given the versatility of the show they played the night before, it's not necessarily out of the realm of possibility that they played "Hurt" that night, but it just as easily could have been confused with "No Second Thoughts" (which did occasionally appear in the sets on that tour, including the set from the night before). Seems like we will never know!

"No Second Thoughts" being played on that tour is very interesting, especially since the first time it was played (assuming that info is correct) was in Chicago (actually Rosemont IL, but the same concert is often known as "Chicago 1981").  As someone who lived in the Chicago area at that time, the June 17 1981 TPATH concert was actually controversial.  What happened was that the band had become hugely popular in the Chicago area with the release of the DTT album, and the HP tour was eagerly anticipated.  However, for the Chicago (i.e. Rosemont, just outside Chicago) Hard Promises visit, a Chicago radio station somehow bought up all or most of the tickets - so that you had to call in and "win" tickets, rather than whatever was the usual method of ticket sales/distribution.    

So some people were upset about the way tickets were handled via the radio station, and even angry at the band for allowing it to happen (I have no idea how much say the band had in it, or how their management handled it).  That ticket situation is what TP is referring to on the recording of that concert, when he says that some people weren't happy with a certain decision (he doesn't specify what it is), and he's dedicating the next song to the people who didn't like the idea.  That song being "No Second Thoughts".  The song sounds pretty great even at the Chicago show, which is not a strong recording.    And it sounds even better at the Seattle show 18 days later, which might be the 2nd time they played the song (ever, and on that tour).

So why did they not play the song in Detroit or the other June concerts that followed the Chicago show, but preceded Seattle?  My thought is that "No Second Thoughts" might not have originally been planned for the tour, until the band realized that not everyone was happy about the way the Chicago tickets were handled.  Then they may have said "let's play 'No Second Thoughts' there", to address the ticket situation.  It might have been intended as a "one off" for the Chicago show only, but then they decided it sounded good so why not add it to other shows.  Or maybe it was always planned for that tour, and the Chicago ticket situation was just a lucky excuse for TP to use that introduction.  The song sounds too good to be nearly spontaneous, though they could have rehearsed it with just the Chicago show in mind.  Whatever the case, I'm very glad the band played it, and very glad some fans recorded it for us to hear all these years later.      

 

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13 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

However, for the Chicago (i.e. Rosemont, just outside Chicago) Hard Promises visit, a Chicago radio station somehow bought up all or most of the tickets - so that you had to call in and "win" tickets, rather than whatever was the usual method of ticket sales/distribution.    

So some people were upset about the way tickets were handled via the radio station, and even angry at the band for allowing it to happen (I have no idea how much say the band had in it, or how their management handled it).

That would be incredibly infuriating. Imagine nowadays the radio station would be hit with such bad publicity via twitter they'd have to surrender the tickets. I could understand why people were angry, it's crazy and how could the Rosemont/band management ever think this was good or fair. Of course now one could make claims about ticketmaster and reselling of tickets after scalpers so...maybe not much has changed. Regardless, they played the song so that's good.

cheers

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17 hours ago, mikemono said:

It's a pretty sparse and muffled recording, and you mostly only hear the cowbell of the drums backing TP's rhythm

 

14 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

The sound quality is definitely listenable.

In one day I went from thinking the song had never been performed live to hearing its (supposedly) only performance! The sound quality was fine, I was more interested in the performance, the leisurely way the band pulled together during the intro, the overall feel of the song and the outro...felt like it could've kept on going for my taste, that quick pause before the last note could've led into some extended soloing.

Still, interesting to hear how the band filled out an additional thirty seconds or so of the song, what Benmont did and the way it built towards that end. I like the quick, sharp ending. I think it could've become something really good in concert had they kept playing it but rough in performance or a bit in sound quality, I'm still glad they played it and now we can all listen to it.

cheers

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31 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

That would be incredibly infuriating. Imagine nowadays the radio station would be hit with such bad publicity via twitter they'd have to surrender the tickets. I could understand why people were angry, it's crazy and how could the Rosemont/band management ever think this was good or fair. Of course now one could make claims about ticketmaster and reselling of tickets after scalpers so...maybe not much has changed. Regardless, they played the song so that's good.

cheers

I feel like this might have been touched on in the Jon Scott book and if its the show I'm thinking of Tom was still struggling somewhat to fill up seats so this was a promotional concert...  I could be mixing this up with an earlier in their career show...

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3 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I was more interested in the performance, the leisurely way the band pulled together during the intro, the overall feel of the song and the outro...felt like it could've kept on going for my taste, that quick pause before the last note could've led into some extended soloing.

Still, interesting to hear how the band filled out an additional thirty seconds or so of the song, what Benmont did and the way it built towards that end. I like the quick, sharp ending. I think it could've become something really good in concert had they kept playing it but rough in performance or a bit in sound quality, I'm still glad they played it and now we can all listen to it

I think it's a fabulous performance, though I agree that if they'd kept performing and polishing it, it could have really been impressive.  Even in this performance, with a little imagination regarding the sound quality, it's better than the studio performance.  I especially like Benmont's piano and keyboard work here, though the guitar work is terrific too.  I wonder if that's TP's guitar in the beginning of the song - I'm guessing that it is, given the way he often started songs with his guitar, and the way it sounds more like him than Mike Campbell.

And it's cool to hear Stan's backing vocals more prominently live than on the studio version.  Also I like the way TP kind of shouts "Let That Sucker Blast!" more than on the studio version.  And as MJ2LD points out, the extended ending works really well.  Though as he says, they could have extended it just a bit more - I'd say not much more.  Just maybe another 5-10 seconds.  Still really nice as is, particularly if you can imagine how it really sounded in person, or how it would have sounded with a soundboard/FM recording. 

This recording, even somewhat rough as it is, is a really big deal for many of us.  I suggest to MikeMono that you should start a new topic in "The Best of Everything" portion of this website, so that those who weren't reading along on this Wildflowers (the album) thread will have a chance to hear it.  If you don't post the link there in a few days, I will. 

Also impressive that your YouTube posting already has over 150 views, less than a full day since you posted it.  And for a lesser known Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers song, performed nearly 37 years ago. 

 

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2 hours ago, Hoodoo Man said:

Tom was still struggling somewhat to fill up seats so this was a promotional concert...  I could be mixing this up with an earlier in their career show...

 I read this in a Rolling Stone magazine from the ITGWO tour. From the Petty Archives site:

https://www.thepettyarchives.com/archives/magazines/1990s/1991-10-12-billboard

 

"...By the time of Petty and the Heartbreakers' last effort together, 1987's underrated Let Me Up (I've Had Enough), sales were slipping, and there were more and more empty seats when the group hit the arenas. "We played a lot of shows where they'd put a curtain up to hide the fact that there was only a two-third house," says Campbell. "But we played like we had a full house and then worried about it when we got back to the hotel." 

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2 hours ago, Hoodoo Man said:

I feel like this might have been touched on in the Jon Scott book and if its the show I'm thinking of Tom was still struggling somewhat to fill up seats so this was a promotional concert...  I could be mixing this up with an earlier in their career show...

I haven't read that book, so I don't know.  To my knowledge the 1981 Chicago (area) concert was not mentioned in any book, at least not the Zanes or Zollo book.  And I could be wrong about the radio station buying "most" of the tickets.  But the station did buy up a huge block of tickets, and then they were taunting everyone via their broadcast "The only way you can see the show is to win tickets", since it sold out so quickly, presumably because they bought up so many tickets.   

Competing radio stations were calling that bad form, saying that this was not the right approach for a concert from major band.  Then again, radio stations were competitive then and might have played up the controversy for that reason.  In reality, it was probably not much more difficult than getting tickets for any concert at that time, which typically involved camping out, knowing someone who camped out, or dealing with scalpers.  Also the Rosemont Horizon (now known as Allstate Arena) holds 18k people at a concert, so it's not as if this was a theater-sized show.  But this radio promotion thing was a minor controversy at the time, and you can hear TP addressing it (without specifically saying what the controversy was about, but I have to assume that's what it was about), prior to "No Second Thoughts". 

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Melody Maker June 1981 with thanks to Petty Archives:

And in Chicago, FM station WLUP staged what the LA Times called "one of the most amazing promotional stunts in rock radio history." The station forked out over $170,000 to buy all 15,000 seats for Petty's June 11 gig at Rosemont Arena, which were then given away to Petty fans in various promotional events.

Naturally, WLUP isn't doing this as a public service, but to regain its ratings lead over rival station WMET. In retaliation, WMET was considering an airplay boycott of "Hard Promises."

The whole thing bewilders Petty. "They came to me and said they wanna buy all the tickets and you get paid and the kids get in free. I said 'I can't argue with that.'. I thought it was a great idea and I still do, and if they don't play us on the other station, then they won't. I mean, I went through years of them not playing us on a lotta stations..."

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