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MaryJanes2ndLastDance

Wildflowers (the album) and a bunch of other stuff

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22 hours ago, martin03345 said:

You and MJLD bandy about "countryish" like you two know what that word means. I don't think it means what you think it means.

At least I have ten fingers.

Well, I put it in quotes and didn't want to belabor it (unlike the set list issue) but was largely meant to reference Iovine's reported feeling of the song as being too country.  That said:

22 hours ago, martin03345 said:

"Keeping Me Alive" is not a country-rock song, nor has any influences from it. Bongos and a rhythm and lead 12 string guitar are far from the sound of that genre. It's folk-rock.

To me I can hear a faint bit of country in the tune, or call it countryish but I don't really care one way or the other; sure folk-rock is fine.

 The point is, it's a good song and I think the difference in style from the rest of the album could've had it work just fine with Long After Dark. Though wasn't Turning Point another contender? I think it's the better song of the two and would've worked even better  than Keepin Me Alive though perhaps too similar in feeling to Finding Out.

22 hours ago, martin03345 said:

"Louisiana Rain" is a country-rock song and fits DTT perfectly.

 I agree.

22 hours ago, martin03345 said:

The only place it could possibly follow is if it follows "Refugee", and the "Here Comes My Girl" gets bumped to the 4th track spot and leave "Even the Losers" at 3rd. "Casa Dega" would be a terrible album closer. It's the perfect follow up to your lead off track.

To clarify, I wasn't advocating ending the record with the song, only that I thought I heard somewhere that it could've been on the record and figured the end would be a good place. But now I will advocate that it could work just fine at the record's conclusion, though like I said above, doing so ends the record, in my opinion, on a more questioning moody feeling whereas Louisiana Rain feels more definite. Unlike LR that has a different musical feel, CD seems more in common with DTT. OK? ETA? SMH? Abbreviations work well with TPATH.

Before continuing on, I went back and listened to Casa Dega, it had been a number of years and I gotta say, it's more uptempo than I recalled...! And what a chorus! I always liked the song from the first time I heard it but it's been a while. Though it's less mellow than I remembered, I think it could've been a good way to conclude the record.

But LR was a good choice too and listening to it again just now, more uptempo than I recalled as well.

cheers

 

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21 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

And since folk music is a major part of country music, that's probably where MJ2LD is thinking country-ish. 

It has a bit of a twang to my ears but isn't what I'd first think of as country but if someone else called it that I wouldn't protest either.

21 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

In a similar vein, "Jammin' Me" does not really fit with the LMU album stylistically, yet it still makes an energetic opening track for "some" album (i.e. it wouldn't have to be LMU).

That is really interesting. To me, I feel this way with Saving Grace and Highway Companion but not with Jamming Me because I feel it's of a piece with the other rock numbers on there, Damage, How Many More, the title track and so on. In one of those links I reordered LMU to my taste since I felt like Runaway Trains and It'll All Work Out form the emotional heart of the record and should be in the middle; the transition from Jammin Me to RT is terrible.

cheers

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21 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Also with Louisiana Rain, the song benefits from a non-musical interlude between "What Are You Doing In My Life" and LR.  To me that break is important, rather than going straight from WAYDIML to LR - which would have been a bit more jarring given the contrasting styles.   The interlude is somewhat similar in effect to the "Hello CD listeners" part of FMF, a deliberate dividing point.  Or maybe it just worked out that way, but it seems planned. 

Good point.

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2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

the transition from Jammin Me to RT is terrible.

Good point, maybe that's why I feel Jammin Me sometimes sounds like a separate song from the LMU album.  Though I've gotten used to it and I like how LMU (the album) plays all the way through now. 

 

2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

To me, I feel this way with Saving Grace and Highway Companion but not with Jamming Me because I feel it's of a piece with the other rock numbers on there...

  Hmm, well Saving Grace does have a more energetic feel than most of the rest of the album.  The only place I recall that album starting to get revved up again is during "Turn This Car Around", but ultimately that engine shuts down again.  Which works for that song, because I think the point is that Petty is singing "I'm going back" and there's a lot of excitement about revisiting the past, but ultimately the excitement dies down, and he decides not to go back (or feels that he can't). 

However, I do feel that "Saving Grace" works stylistically with the rest of the album.  But the HC album could definitely use a re-ordering of the tracks, especially with the 2 bonus tracks "Home" and "Around the Roses" added.  I've tried to figure out my own best way of re-ordering HC as a 14 song album, but never really got very far with it (to extend the "travelling" metaphor of HC).   I actually thought "Home" wouldn't have to go at the end, but could be closer to the middle; because maybe the traveler stops at home - perhaps his childhood home rather than his current home, or perhaps his travels are in two parts, returning home and then leaving again.   

A re-ordering of HC (14 track version) is probably worthy of a topic in the future, if it hasn't been done already.  And it would assume that everyone here is familiar with the two bonus tracks of the "special edition", possibly a bad assumption since it's now out of print and available only at high prices online.    But when I think of HC I think of the special edition version, which is probably why I rate it higher than most people.     

 

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4 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Though I've gotten used to it and I like how LMU (the album) plays all the way through now. 

Nice.

4 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

A re-ordering of HC (14 track version) is probably worthy of a topic in the future, if it hasn't been done already.

I don't know if it has been done or not but there could be people on here with different takes on it. For me, HC is down towards the bottom of the TPATH pile, aside from Saving Grace, Turn This Car Around and Big Weekend the record just never connected with me. Though I like the cover quite a lot.

cheers

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I like the plane on the pool picture on the sleeve on LMU... Probably nowadays I lke the picture most than the album. 😱

I like a lot Highway Companion. It is really high on the pile. Maybe Ankle Deep isn't the best track on that album, but I love that song. It has the repeat button effect on me . 

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14 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

For me, HC is down towards the bottom of the TPATH pile, aside from Saving Grace, Turn This Car Around and Big Weekend the record just never connected with me. Though I like the cover quite a lot.

I like those songs from HC; I also like "Night Driver" and "Home" quite a lot.  "Night Driver" has a very cool, atmospheric quality to me, and "Home" is just a strong song with nice vocals and some great rocking sounds.  I think the problem for HC is that it has too many slow paced songs, especially without "Home" on the original version, which would have picked up the pace.  And the track ordering is wrong, IMO.       

I do like the cover also, kind of a sci-fi take on the album, where the monkey is the companion - possibly because there are no humans there or none willing to make the trip.  It also reminds me a bit of the Curious George books, which I always enjoyed. 

I'm trying to do a re-ordering of the tracks to make a stronger album, adding in the two "special edition" tracks but not dropping any songs (despite the temptation to cut it down to 9-10 songs that I like best).  I figure it should be organized for pacing and to suggest a story; the original album does neither particularly well, even though it appears that it was supposed to be true to an overall concept.  I might start a new topic some time to see if others have ideas on a re-ordering of the (14) HC tracks.  And I do plan to burn my own version to CD.  

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4 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

I'm trying to do a re-ordering of the tracks to make a stronger album, adding in the two "special edition" tracks but not dropping any songs (despite the temptation to cut it down to 9-10 songs that I like best).  I figure it should be organized for pacing and to suggest a story; the original album does neither particularly well, even though it appears that it was supposed to be true to an overall concept

This will be interesting. I look forward to more on this. Seems like it may have been done.. but maybe it's just been touched upon.. (check for HC threads, there should be some.) Either way, very good idea. Well worth pondering.

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On September 6, 2019 at 6:10 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

with the 2 bonus tracks "Home" and "Around the Roses" added.

I never listened to either of these before and checked them out on youtube today.

Home----That's a surprisingly good rock song, if there had been a few more of these, then I think it could've fit on the album, otherwise it stands out to much to me, much like Saving Grace. Just on its own I think it's a really fine rock song. The weakest element is some of Lynne's production, this song would've been something performed by them with a more powerful percussive element.

Some of the slidework (?) in the song or certain guitar sounds like something from FMF, the riff though reminds me of something from their early days, so it's an interesting mix, aside from those moments, it sounds fresh and new. 

Around the Roses---I liked it, just a nice gentle tune. Too bad this one didn't make the album since it fits in with most of it. Listening to it again I had to return to this and say it's actually pretty darn good. Maybe even a great TP song.

This Old Town (demo)---I liked it too.

Would even adding Home have improved my opinion on HC? Nah, but it's a darn good Tom Petty song. Around The Roses is pretty good too.

ciao

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35 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Home----That's a surprisingly good rock song, if there had been a few more of these, then I think it could've fit on the album, otherwise it stands out to much to me, much like Saving Grace. Just on its own I think it's a really fine rock song. The weakest element is some of Lynne's production, this song would've been something performed by them with a more powerful percussive element. 

Some of the slidework (?) in the song or certain guitar sounds like something from FMF, the riff though reminds me of something from their early days, so it's an interesting mix, aside from those moments, it sounds fresh and new. 

I agree completely regarding Home.  In fact it's such a great song, it's a shame that very few people have heard it, including many TPATH fans.  I also agree that Jeff Lynne's production might be holding it back slightly, or maybe they could have used a real drummer like Stan or Steve.  And yes it contrasts with the more mellow songs of HC, but it also could have brought more life to that album at some point.  In playing around with a new song order for HC though, I'm having a tough time fitting it in.  Maybe that's why they left it off that album, and only included it as a bonus track.  On the other hand "Around The Roses" would have fit in fine, even though it's not as strong as "Home".   

You know which album "Home" could have been perfect for?  Hypnotic Eye.  It's got that fresh rocking sound that fits HE very well.  Also the "fallout shelter" reference fits with the semi-apocalyptic lyrics of HE.   Imagine if Petty had held "Home" back until HE.  Or if it had been saved until the recent anthology "The Best of Everything" as a new song, people might be raving about it.   

As far as the sounds, I agree that those are interesting.  The last part of the song reminds me of the opening of Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky".  Which still doesn't really fit the feel of the HC album, but it's cool anyway. 

 

  

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12 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

You know which album "Home" could have been perfect for?  Hypnotic Eye.  It's got that fresh rocking sound that fits HE very well.  Also the "fallout shelter" reference fits with the semi-apocalyptic lyrics of HE.   Imagine if Petty had held "Home" back until HE.

With a slight change of drums and maybe production overall I think it would've worked quite well! Could've put it after Forgotten Man (what a combo) or before U Get Me High!

13 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

As far as the sounds, I agree that those are interesting.  The last part of the song reminds me of the opening of Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky".  Which still doesn't really fit the feel of the HC album, but it's cool anyway. 

I can kinda here the Greenbaum there.

cheers

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9 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

That is one humdinger of an album cover.

Monkey: "Come now, you silly man! Your ride is here. It's time for you to go, so that we can start this place over."

Or perhaps the cover just a belated insight that the sky is not the limit after all. As a sidenote, it may be worth noticing that most movement throughout HC seem to take place on all four. Wheels that is. As mirrored in the album title, of course. --- Yet the album starts mid air, seemingly. There's flying.. some kinda bird view for the most part.. going on in Saving Grace. And the album goes out on what seem like a seafaring note, taking off.. cut the painter!, sail into the sunset.. whatever.. The rest of it is.. well, automotive. The "highway" as the key setting. All in all a very earth bound, very grounded and really... inner journeys, isn't it.. To illustrate this then, a rocket ship, a space craft. Perhaps less than obvious and not necessarily a better fit the more you analyse is. The "companion" part is easy enough to read into the picture, but the "highway" that is so central to the sounds, lyrics and title of the album then?... Well, I suppose it can mean whatever you want it to mean and as such it's quite brilliant. No matter what you think about its' aesthetic qualities, it's by far the most "strange" cover in the TP catalogue. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Shelter said:

Monkey: "Come now, you silly man! Your ride is here. It's time for you to go, so that we can start this place over."

What? Wow. That is one harsh interpretation! Y'know, I sometimes thought that was an alien planet and they were on their way back to Earth.

If one believes in the Theory of Evolution (I don't which may surprise some, it certainly has surprised some friends in real life) perhaps the album cover is a metaphor for man's higher and lower natures being united and thus, able to utilize technology to journey into space, to different worlds. Poetic perhaps? Reaching too far maybe? A balance between the intellect and the body? One could also view it as you did here, ecologically but in this case, man and animal in harmony and thus able to access different worlds.

First  you get your act together buddy and live in harmony with each other and nature then you get to go off-world!

52 minutes ago, Shelter said:

Or perhaps the cover just a belated insight that the sky is not the limit after all.

Whew, all right then. I rank this cover up there with ITGWO, for a band with average to below average or even downright mediocre covers or just uninspired boring ones, this and ITGWO really stand out.

52 minutes ago, Shelter said:

All in all a very earth bound, very grounded and really... inner journeys, isn't it.. To illustrate this then, a rocket ship, a space craft. Perhaps less than obvious and not necessarily a better fit the more you analyse is.

Actually, I think it an interesting juxtaposition.

52 minutes ago, Shelter said:

Well, I suppose it can mean whatever you want it to mean and as such it's quite brilliant. No matter what you think about its' aesthetic qualities, it's by far the most "strange" cover in the TP catalogue. 

I may be wrong but I think I"m in the minority on this cover as well; but I think it just looks darn good. There's a friendliness to it and a warmth both in the style of drawing/painting and the use of colors.

When I first bought the album I thought it would have more of a Runnin' Down A Dream feeling based on the title, or at least, more energy to it, as a driving album but like you said, it's more of an inner journey record.  To me Runnin' is a day time pedal-to-the-metal song, whereas this album is more of a late night barely anyone else on the road, time to be introspective record, perhaps the song Night Driver is a clue, eh?

Whether a bit tongue-in-cheek, or serious or both, your points on the nature of the physical travel in the songs is an interesting one; if there's some deeper meaning to be found maybe someone else will suss it out as I"ve no clue. 

I think the strangest TPATH cover is Let Me Up, which is both garish, clever and unpleasant to look at all at once. I guess I've gotten used to it over the years but is just ugly.

Highway Companion promises an interesting, perhaps even surreal journey maybe...but after one hears the music, maybe more of a friendly trip, more in line with the acoustic blend and easy on the ears feeling in terms of music.

cheers

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59 minutes ago, Shelter said:

Well, I suppose it can mean whatever you want it 

Yes. I suppose.

Another reading of that cover. A monkey on a rocket... It is an experiment! A monkey on an unfamiliar environment... Let"s see if he survives!

Just like Tom on that album... Playing the drums, bass, keyboards... It was a kind of experiment... And probably he was afraid... Just like a monkey on a rocket!

 

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31 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Whether a bit tongue-in-cheek, or serious or both, your points on the nature of the physical travel in the songs is an interesting one; if there's some deeper meaning to be found maybe someone else will suss it out as I"ve no clue. 

I don't know. I hear some homages in this album... A guitar which sounds just like George Harrison, a little bit of J. Cash, maybe a kind of "wilbury"song, a little bit of R. Mcguinn... And maybe more things that I'm unable to grasp. Some trip "companions" after all.

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50 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

If one believes in the Theory of Evolution (I don't which may surprise some, it certainly has surprised some friends in real life) perhaps the album cover is a metaphor for man's higher and lower natures being united and thus, able to utilize technology to journey into space, to different worlds. 

Woah. Wait up. Back to this. I've heard of people who belief stuff like this, but, honestly, you're the first I've met. So. Fascinating. That's an interesting approach. I feel it's reasonable to ask, in that case, what is your theory, your explanation? If the explanations developed by scientists including Darwin, Mendel, Wallace, Fisher and all the rest aren't compelling enough for you, what do you think is going on in the natural world? Feel free to limit it to one phrase, one sentence, to summarise it in a paragraph... I'm not looking for a 15 page document. Is it something like "what it says in Genesis", or intellegent design, or a traditional belief, or "I don't know, just not evolution" or some thing else altogether? In case you're wondering, I'm asking out of genuine curiousity with absolutely no subtext, no sarcasm, no judging, just 100% pure genuine curiousity. 

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

That is one harsh interpretation!

Hold on.. That was more of a half cynical joke (ok, totally cynical, I think mankind deserves as much), than an actual interpretation. Even if I'm not sure I find the distinction necessary.

Context: I take it for granted that most people see the picture as the person leading the ape (in the wider classical Gordo sence). Or perhaps them walking together, very much in line with that "higher and lower natures" metaphor of yours, that I'd guess is the most common reading of the whole thing. (Speaking of harmony, of being "one and the same" - how come the little fella need no suit?!)

With regards to all that, I just thought it "clever" to see it the other way around. In a very current events like satirical twist, making the monkey the leader, the one who leads man (through an almost barren landscape) towards his "escape capsule". Allowing for nature to have a second go at it, so to speak. It can all be very mutual, of course.. I did not intend to offer an actual analysis here. I was poking fun. If attempted clever fun. I can't believe I have to spell these things out..

1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Whew, all right then.

Again, a joke. I did not make aestethic judgement. Just word play. The sky being the limit, is a bit of a TP catchphrase. Apparently in this album cover that limit has been reached. Or is soon to be reached. Just an observation that wasn't really adding much to my post, admittedly.

1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I think the strangest TPATH cover is Let Me Up, which is both garish, clever and unpleasant to look at all at once. I guess I've gotten used to it over the years but is just ugly.

Yeah, I kinda agree. Although, to their defense, it's still them on the cover of LMU, which somehow makes it feel at least slightly more apt than a space themed aestethics on an album with the world Highway in the title. Then again, I know there are "intergalactic highways" and general symbolism and just cozy vibe paintings, so I'm not passing judgement here or offering any final says. Just trying to be clever about tossing a few lighthearted ideas about really, as to what, possibly could be behind the rather striking - hard to deny it - symbolism and motif of the HC cover.

Edit

 

 

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1 hour ago, Big Blue Sky said:

Feel free to limit it to one phrase, one sentence, to summarise it in a paragraph... I'm not looking for a 15 page document.

 The simple answer is I believe God created the world and am a Christian.

The more complicated and multifaceted answer that sometimes feels like pseudo-intellectual or intellectual justifications of deeply held belief and feelings, which are not quantifiable:

I'm fine with evolution as a product of God's design, what you'd call Intelligent Design that set in motion the process of evolution but...I have read documents debunking or at least poking holes in Darwin, this was years back before I had the internet and the book's title I'm not sure of. Disinformation series? One could of course search for debunking or counterarguments to Darwin online, whether or not they are valid I couldn't say.

While we exist in a seemingly physical reality there's a variety of information pointing towards something beyond the purely physical, a smorgasbord of: the whole observer changes the nature of reality,  quantum mechanics, which I'm not sure how much of any I understand, Plato's allegory of the cave interpreted as a more literal tale than metaphorical, the latter being valid of course but obscuring the paradoxically literal yet metaphysical meaning, even supposedly a declassified government document (don't know the validity of it, could be a hoax) basically asserting that reality is some kind of hologram (?) or creation that can be manipulated by moving outside the dimensional bounds or accessing that energy to bring forth change in the material world; the reality is a simulation and so on.

What all of that gobbledy-gook points to, in a simple sentence is: Reality isn't what it seems. Or, there's more going on than we know in reality.

That's aside from personal experiences, again, not quantifiable pointing to a deeper meaning beyond the purely physical, refuting the idea that there is no meaning other than what humans construct, evolution, big bang and such.

As conversations, debates, arguments it's fine but in my experience ends with a bit of a better understanding of the other person but without really changing anyone's mind.

I've been friends with atheists, agnostics, cynics, but to me, what seems to matter is how one conducts oneself in life, I think it's more important than getting tangled up in intellectual knots, not that it can't be fun or interesting, just that at the end of the day, what matters is am I living up to my potential, did I give that homeless man a dollar or look the other way, am I being lazy or productive, kind or selfish, petty or Tom Petty, I think you get the point.

ciao

 

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