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MaryJanes2ndLastDance

Wildflowers (the album) and a bunch of other stuff

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1 hour ago, Shelter said:

ok, totally cynical,

Yeah, I know! I can't fault you for how and why you feel but I was still struck by it.

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

(Speaking of harmony, of being "one and the same" - how come the little fella need no suit?!)

Cause he's already got a monkey suit!

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

Allowing for nature to have a second go at it, so to speak. It can all be very mutual, of course.. I did not intend to offer an actual analysis here.

I don't think there's a right answer here, I just like hearing peoples's different thoughts.

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

I was poking fun. If attempted clever fun. I can't believe I have to spell these things out..

Sometimes it's kind of hard to tell online without vocal inflection, facial tics and such. 

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

it's still them on the cover of LMU, which somehow makes it feel at least slightly more apt than a space themed aestethics on an album with the world Highway in the title.

Apt maybe but I think that's a big problem with TPATH album covers; I get it. I know what Tom looks like, I know what the band looks like. Frankly, I don't give a damn. Not even a single torpedo. Did the record company think we'd just forget what they'd look like or something? Would be confused if we saw their name on the album but not them: "Hey...is this the real Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers or those imposters? Doppelgangers?" 

Not only do I like the covers to ITGWO, HC and HE as is, but especially in comparison to the rest of their covers. What the hell is going on with Mojo? Why is the cover to LAD all in red? Etc. Though I do like the photo on HP.

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

Just trying to be clever about tossing a few lighthearted ideas about really, as to what, possibly could be behind the rather striking - hard to deny it - symbolism and motif of the HC cover.

I liked it. I just was mainly struck by the harsh, humanity fucked up the planet vibe of your first take; and while you jest about it a bit, again, I get why you'd offer something so cynical; just seeing it like that felt particularly harsh. But I think I get where you're coming from on the record and maybe we'll see how others took it, since, per Drew's suggestion, this topic is also about "a bunch of other stuff" and God, rocketships and evolution certainly factor in.

cheers

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2 hours ago, Mr Timba said:

Another reading of that cover. A monkey on a rocket... It is an experiment! A monkey on an unfamiliar environment... Let"s see if he survives!

Just like Tom on that album... Playing the drums, bass, keyboards... It was a kind of experiment... And probably he was afraid... Just like a monkey on a rocket!

 Yeah, it definitely was an experiment, returning to Lynne as collaborator after so many years and Tom taking on the bulk of the instruments. I'm glad he decided this would be his last solo effort though.

cheers

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1 hour ago, Shelter said:

Edit

Hmmm...I feel like I missed something. Or maybe something missed me? Something in the air perhaps?

40 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

Can be harmless enough I suppose.

Shelter!

Me thinks Shelter doth censor himself for fear cutting wit could slice. I could be wrong. Regardless, it's fine man, to quote one of Tom's deep cuts "people believe what they want to believe".

You realize you're dealing with someone who has openly denied evolution, criticized Tom's set list choices on a hardcore TPATH forum, finds optimism in Straight into Darkness and (gasp) defends It Ain't Nothin' To Me as one of the band's best compositions musically and lyrically...!

Minority Opinion's Last Dance...

cheers

 

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:D Well.. second thoughts and general decency and all that. (I know that's not my forte, really, but still.)

I just took a few shortcuts with my conclusions and I like to be better than that. Harmless enough. Don't worry about it.

Admonition taken, Big Blue..  Quite right.

 

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Science is true whether you believe it or not. It's like magic, but better, because it's true. 

Not what I'd call Intelligent Design. That idea has zero scientific validity. It is equivalent of a con artist's hustle. Sorry to be the one to tell you this.

Evolution has been going from way, way before humans first stopped chasing fleas. The scientific discipline of evolution is a fundamental part of contemporary life including: genetics, medicine and agriculture.

The great Charles Darwin was just one of a corps of scientists who use their skills and knowledge to explore the unknown. Their legacy has created - and continues to create many breakthroughs. Their peers worldwide recognise their contributions through social rewards (Medal of Congress, knight & dame system), academic prestige (academic tenure, Fellow of Royal Society) and/or peak prestige (such as the Nobel Prize, being given a state funeral). 

Their research into evolution and evolutionary genetics has many practical applications in your life. So if you reject evolution, then logically you'll need to question these scientific concepts. Let's see how you get on with the contemporary world in which you live: from the next labradoodle pup to the next medical test (or detective novel) based on DNA. The next coffee you drink has been carefully bred, by the way. The next bunch of flowers, the wheat in your next sourdough toast. 

Musician Woodie Guthrie inherited a terrible genetic disease called Huntington's Chorea. His son Arlo didn't inherit it. Arlo got lucky. This illness is a classic example of evolutionary genetics. All of what I say is true whether you believe it or not - and we can be very sure that Arlo Guthrie is delighted it missed him, because he has said so. So let's continue to fund research and listen to scientists. 

Now, back to music. 

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Yes, thanks Shelter. I gave you the equivalent of a hard stare! :rolleyes:Harmless indeed. Sometimes when we hear something so shocking as this baloney, our instinct is to smooth down the situation... "maybe your idea's not so bad, maybe it's harmless" ... Where does that end up? Appeasement, that's where. Up a creek without a paddle. Every time. 

Diverse opinions about music are 100% fine. We live for those! Right? 

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28 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

Not what I'd call Intelligent Design. That idea has zero scientific validity. It is equivalent of a con artist's hustle. Sorry to be the one to tell you this.

Evolution has been going from way, way before humans first stopped chasing fleas.

Regardless of me not believing in it, I think you missed the point where I said I'm also fine with the theory of evolution though I'd point to God as the first cause, that is, sent evolution into motion.

I'm also fairly familiar with the arguments in favor of science and such that you bring up, like I also said, I've had many a discussion on the nature of Reality, God, meaning of life, etc. etc. As for science,  I am using a computer. And I'm not here to proselytize, and you did ask after all.

But we're a long way from knowing much of anything, why do people dream, why the Big Bang, why SOMETHING INSTEAD OF NOTHING, just for starters.

cheers

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Shelter said:

:D Well.. second thoughts and general decency and all that. (I know that's not my forte, really, but still.)

I just took a few shortcuts with my concludions and I like to be better than that. Harmless enough. Don't worry about it.

Admonition taken, Big Blue..  Quite right.

 

Fair enough.

cheers

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26 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

Sometimes when we hear something so shocking as this baloney,

The way you worded this made me laugh. Maybe it's just the usage of "baloney." 

26 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

maybe your idea's not so bad, maybe it's harmless" ... Where does that end up? Appeasement, that's where. Up a creek without a paddle. Every time. 

I would hope that after "interacting" with me online by this point, you'd not lump me in with people looking to condemn, usher in a New Theocracy, use the Handmaid's Tale as a blueprint for society etc. etc. It's why I stressed  earlier, what matters is how we behave towards one another, towards animals, and nature. I've known horrific so-called Christians and kind, gentle, honorable agnostics, and atheists. If judgement is to be had, isn't it based on actions, not lip-service.

It's enough just minding my own business without chasing after others trying to make them see things my way. As if I would want to do that. Let's just try to get along as a species.

Back to HC's cover, could also be higher nature/lower nature in harmony,  a balance between instinct and intellect.

Odd. Very odd. Strange sense of deja vu came over me just now. Doesn't happen often.

Anyway. I've no interest in taking your paddle from you. Or from anyone really. Paddling in all its forms can be fun ;) 

But I'll stop there.

cheers

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If anyone is interested in learning more about these areas of scientific knowledge, please do contact me directly. That's an honest open offer. There are many useful, interesting resources, whether that's dealing with introductory concepts, or at school / university level, or for on-going life-long engagement with ideas.  

Now, back to the music. 

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OK.
So, did this thread ever veer off topic from Wildflowers or what!?

We someone went went off course to discussions about AC/DC, set lists and rarely played songs + graphs, should Louisiana Rain close DDT?*, the monkey on the HC album cover, and then science and evolution (no pun intended).

I'm gonna steer it back to Wildflowers now, if you all are good with that.

November 1 marks the 25th Anniversary of the release of this special album. Do you think that IF a WF All the Rest is to appear in time to coordinate with this date, that it probably would've been announced by now, no? Last we heard about it, back in April, both sides/parties involved were gridlocked. Sadly. The ongoing frustrating saga of it all...

 

*Gotta do a Shelter-style asterisk. Louisiana Rain always sounded more like a Mudcrutch tune to me. Not sure...It's got that Up In Mississippi Tonight vibe to me (with better, fuller production obviously). Same geographical location too...:)

I think it's a strange choice to close out DDT. It never fit with the rest of the album for me, sonically, thematically...I think Casa Dega is a FAR SUPERIOR song, and wish it could of found it's way onto DDT.

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8 hours ago, RedfordCowboy said:

I'm gonna steer it back to Wildflowers now, if you all are good with that.

Ha ha, definitely. Glad you did so.

8 hours ago, RedfordCowboy said:

Do you think that IF a WF All the Rest is to appear in time to coordinate with this date, that it probably would've been announced by now, no?

I really thought they'd get it together to have it released like you said. At this point, I won't say never but I don't see any point in pining away after it. I feel badly for the fans who have been waiting years for it, teased by a release that hasn't happened; I'm not in that group but it's more for their benefit than my own I've been hoping it would be released already. Maybe one day. I would be curious to hear what exactly caused the delay if Tom had it all set in place. Who cares if Ryan found more tracks, should've released those another time and gone with Tom's vision. If it was completed. It's a mess and while not as beaten into the ground as the set list issue, it's a sadly well worn loop of mixed messages, frustration and disappointment. 

8 hours ago, RedfordCowboy said:

It never fit with the rest of the album for me, sonically, thematically

I think that's part of the appeal, a bit of a come down after the more harder rocking tracks and a totally different vibe. But I agree, Casa Dega could've fit on the end. I think it has more in common with DTT than Louisiana Rain but perhaps that difference is what makes it work (for some) as the conclusion to the record.

cheers

 

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12 hours ago, RedfordCowboy said:

November 1 marks the 25th Anniversary of the release of this special album. Do you think that IF a WF All the Rest is to appear in time to coordinate with this date, that it probably would've been announced by now, no?

It likely would've, yes. Last thing I heard, though, the little queens work full time fondling tiny dogs and weighing huge tantrums. It all reminds me a bit of Alice In Wonderland, come to think of it. 

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Glad to see this going back on course.  I really wish that ATR would come out in November for the 25th but that remains my wish...

I feel the estate (read that as Adria) really blew the opportunity by doing AAT and the other greatest hits package in such short order then publicly squabbling with Dana and the band. For gods sake, Tom was busy mixing and editing ATR before the 40th Anniversary tour, had released 'under heaven' and more than teased that it was imminently being released but typically Tom was a perfectionist and didnt get it done. 

I'm feeling like they are dishonoring his legacy and passion project by doing these compilations and not getting out the revised Wildflowers album.  Don't get me wrong I love the American Treasure set and the tracks they released then but feel the other greatest hits even though it crossed into Mudcrutch and other projects was really about milking the cash cow while the milking was good.  :( 

At this point to my mind they really need to do a major box for All the Rest with a small book curated by Warren Zanes outlining the origin and history of the original album and covering Tom's desire to see the package mastered and tracked perfectly according to his original vision for the album then a full on apology to the fans and Tom for not getting this done sooner.  And yes I'm somewhat serious.  I would love to see ATR turn into a tribute tour of sorts with  the band and singers that Tom tapped coming out and doing a song or two and finally offering his fans some closure and the tribute Tom deserves and I'm only half serious about the tour. ;) 

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I've accepted the fact that whenever the damn thing comes out that it will nowhere be as satisfying and enjoyable as we all hope for it to be. At this point, if there isn't like a 6 disc collection the size of Springsteen's The Ties that Bind or The Promise, it'll be a let down. This thing should include outtakes from Wildflowers, the Johnny Cash Unchained sessions, the pre-Wildflowers sessions, the She's the One  sessions and a concert or two, it won't end up being worth the wait.

This thing has become the Duke Nuke'em Forever of LPs.

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4 hours ago, Hoodoo Man said:

Tom was busy mixing and editing ATR before the 40th Anniversary tour, had released 'under heaven' and more than teased that it was imminently being released but typically Tom was a perfectionist and didnt get it done. 

Which meant they still could've released it in whatever form he left it in; the listeners understand that it may or may not have been his full vision and would accept it as such. If it was completed, release it. If it was uncompleted, finish off to what he was doing and release it or just release whatever he'd finished. Moot now.

4 hours ago, Hoodoo Man said:

I would love to see ATR turn into a tribute tour of sorts with  the band and singers that Tom tapped coming out and doing a song or two and finally offering his fans some closure and the tribute Tom deserves and I'm only half serious about the tour.

That's an interesting idea. I don't know if they'd do a tour, it sounds a bit much but maybe a one-off show with webcast or something with guest singers, but...it just sounds like it would be too much of an open wound for them, a painful what-could've-been, but I appreciate where you're coming from with this.

cheers

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32 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

That's an interesting idea. I don't know if they'd do a tour, it sounds a bit much but maybe a one-off show with webcast or something with guest singers...

If they do that, I hope they don't include Eddie Vedder.  I'm so tired of that guy horning his way into shows that I would otherwise enjoy, whether it's a concert by The Who, Pete Townshend, TPATH (in 2006 Gainesville, and talking about himself during the RDAD film), or even singing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" (terrible rendition) in the 2016 World Series at Wrigley Field. 

I guess that guy connects with his own Pearl Jam fanbase (is anyone here a Pearl Jam fan?  I didn't think so), and maybe he's some sort of super-fan of classic rock himself, but to me he has a "sour" or "off" sounding voice (for lack of a better term) and zero personal appeal.  Though he'd probably be the first one pushing for a slot on a show like that.   

Sorry for that slightly off-topic rant.  Miley Cyrus on the other hand did a great rendition of "Wildflowers" (the song), along with her dad.   I could see other country-ish singers contributing (most songs) to a live, expanded WF, as well as some rock singers (not too many).   Taylor Swift also seems to be a big TP fan and would likely do it.  Lots of possibilities.   

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8 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

guess that guy connects with his own Pearl Jam fanbase (is anyone here a Pearl Jam fan?  I didn't think so), and maybe he's some sort of super-fan of classic rock himself, but to me he has an ugly voice and zero personal appeal.  Though he'd probably be the first one pushing for a slot on a show like that. 

I think Pearl Jam are the greatest rock band of all time. While smoking has effected his voice negatively, his early years it was a unique and powerful presence and I think considering it's still pretty good. As for the live experience they're second to none with the power of their performances, set list variety, spontaneity and jamming as well as delivering a good three hour concert.

I think you're being a bit harsh, from my understanding Vedder's always been very respectful of the band, even asking Tom's permission before covering Won't Back Down. I realize other's have a different taste and don't care for PJ but I also think sometimes people have an askew perception of him.

From what I gather, interviews, seeing him on stage and such, I think he comes across as quite sincere and humble, and especially on stage with other artists or when he dueted with Tom here and there. At the last night of the Spectrum in Philly on Halloween nearly ten years ago (!) he even had the oldest worker in the building come up on stage in the middle of the show and say a few words; it was quite touching. When he performed the Waiting all he radiated was joy to be on stage with them and then dropped back while the band played. I know he's given a shout out to the Dirty Knobs in Telluride as well.

The guy will often move off to the side of the stage while his band jams so the focus is on the instruments and not him. I don't pretend to know the man but I'd say your take that he's one to shove himself in or make things about him is wrong.

14 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Sorry for that slightly off-topic rant.  Miley Cyrus on the other hand did a great rendition of "Wildflowers" (the song), along with her dad.   I could see other country-ish singers contributing (most songs) to a live, expanded WF, as well as some rock singers (not too many).   Taylor Swift also seems to be a big TP fan and would likely do it.  Lots of possibilities

No apology needed! As for other singers, such an event were it to occur would most likely be a one-off since gathering so many in one spot would be enough of a scheduling headache let alone a tour. If there was a song he connected with I could see Dylan doing it, Eddie Vedder, Stevie Nicks and the others you mention.

cheers

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I should add, a one-off with them performing Wildflowers and followed up by some of their own songs could be quite cathartic and a celebration of their music. I don't know though, so far such an event doesn't seem to hold appeal for them, at least as far as from here on the outside looking in. It makes sense, if Benmont is performing tender renditions of a TPATH song and tried to get people not to post them online, it all may just be too much.

I could see it all being very fresh for them and instead of a big hoopla just respecting the music they made with their own personal tributes, like Benmont with his performances, or Mike with Fleetwood or the Dirty Knobs. 

cheers

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42 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Tom was a perfectionist and didnt get it done. 

For the record, my understanding is that he did get it done. But that there were other forces not believing in it that kept procrastinate. Being it by innocent folly or evil design.

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1 minute ago, Shelter said:

For the record, my understanding is that he did get it done. But that there were other forces not believing in it that kept procrastinate. Being it by innocent folly or evil design.

"Perfectionist" was me quoting Hoodoo Man. But yeah, if you're right it really stinks as you'd think that would be archival release NUMERO UNO considering it was something Tom had done.

Not AAT or Best o' Everything. And this year would've been perfect, picture the marketing team leaping into action! 25 years, beloved classic, tracks from the same period of time! Buy now! Hurry! Pre-order! Buy ten copies! Zebra-print vinyl!

 

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7 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

it all may just be too much.

Yes, to me it would. Sounds quite horrible all of it, must say. Very few tribute shows like that have ever amounted to much, beyond being very honoring and heartfelt in their aim of course. That may be nice enough, but not something I would personally be thrilled to see or hear. It would take incredibly personal and special renditions by very apt acts to make such a thing fly, with or without TH, especially with.

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I think Pearl Jam are the greatest rock band of all time. While smoking has effected his voice negatively, his early years it was a unique and powerful presence and I think considering it's still pretty good.

Ok that's fine.  BTW I changed my description of his voice from "ugly" to "sour or off" because I realized that ugly was more subjective than I wanted, and I suppose some people could describe a lot of popular singing voices as "ugly".  EV's voice just grates on me though, plus it's like an out of tune instrument.  I haven't heard much Pearl Jam, what I heard I didn't like, but we all have different taste in music.   I definitely haven't liked his voice or his presence in joining bands that I do like, and maybe I'm only hearing the "smoking affected" voice but that's the one he was using, not his "early years" voice.    

It's uncanny how many times I've been watching or listening to some concert or event, and who shows up to grab the microphone but Eddie Vedder.  Maybe he was invited or whatever, but I truly dislike his voice and his stage presence, and I just want to hear the actual band that I came to hear, not some usurper, no matter how big a fan he is.  Hey I'm a fan too, should I be on stage also?  I think not. 

I'm glad to hear that Vedder can express humility at times.  I didn't think much of his part in the RDAD film, where he talked about how "all the girls" loved Tom Petty's music and it apparently made him jealous.  He didn't say that he (EV) was a fan of Petty's music, just that the girls he dated liked Petty.  But then there he is on stage with Petty at the 2006 show (and in the RDAD film), screwing up some song (I forget which one, maybe it was more than one).   Vedder is smugly "Hey girls, look who is on stage now!".   Hey EV, the film is not about you.

Then I listen to a Pete Townshend solo benefit concert - hey it's Eddie Vedder, screwing up Townshend's music!  And then The Who at Albert Hall, hey let's welcome Eddie Vedder to screw up 3 songs that you might otherwise enjoy.  Then as a Chicago Cubs fan, I'm watching their only World Series in my lifetime, and who shows up to sing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" - but Eddie Vedder - badly!  I don't know if he didn't practice it, or if that's just how he sings, but what a disaster.  And it's like I can't get away from this guy.  To be fair, Mike Ditka did an even worse version of that song, but he's a football guy, not a professional singer.   

Searching the internet now, apparently Vedder performed other times with TPATH in 2006 (I'm glad I missed those).  If I went to a TPATH concert and Eddie Vedder took the microphone for a song or two, I'd want at least a partial refund.  Maybe that's just me, but I don't think the promoters should assume that TPATH fans want to hear EV instead of TP.  I can just imagine being at a Traveling Wilburys concert (if they'd actually done any, and back when Roy Orbison was still alive) and who steps up and grabs the microphone from Roy during "Handle With Care" to sing Roy's part - ubiquitous uber-fan Eddie Vedder!  I would not have been a happy camper, and I suspect most of the paying audience would have felt a bit cheated.  But I certainly wouldn't bet against EV getting himself onto a WF "Heartbreakers and guest vocalists" concert.    

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Personally I really dislike the Eddie Vedder song he did with the band at the TPHB concert, have not heard the other covers he has done in the live shows. PJ has some good songs - Yellow leadbetter is one I really like, but I don't like Eddie touching the music of Tom.  That said, I do feel he is a good guy and very respectful of Petty, he comes across as earnest enough and as a real fan of the music. Was he interviewed for RDD or was it something else? - I know I saw him talking animatedly about being on stage with Tom and how it was a thrill to play and sing with an idol of his so...  

The only reason I mention a tour in support of ATR is Tom himself was purported to have spoken to some artists about touring with him so it would be fulfilling that concept for Tom as much as for the fans. I believe it was Nora Jones that was specifically mentioned in the article I saw a few years back... but Nora, maybe Lucinda Williams, Mike and Ben doing a few songs who knows, its wishful thinking and only words as I doubt we'd see something like that outside of a one night HBO special or something and I don't think there is a vision for this happening even two years later. :( 

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