Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MaryJanes2ndLastDance

Words on Damn the Torpedoes

Recommended Posts

 

Perhaps you have done so already, but study it real close, both the studio versions, then the existing live versions and so on, and you will notice there's nothing limp about this noodle. It's quite intricate in its arrengements - listen for many things - it has a nice "oldie" type groove, a cool vibe that kinda both steals the show and generously allows for it to continue bravely in its wake - and imo it has got really great vocals, some of the best ever, if I may be so bold. 

 Having listened to Surrender again on different occasions and giving it a fair shot, it's better than I remembered it being but still not something extraordinary. I suppose it's quite like others giving It Ain't Nothin' To Me another shot despite their dislike.

 It's an interesting song though and you're right in saying it's "intricate in is arrangements". The beginning sounds like classic TPATH, the short instrumental intro with all the instruments coming together to make that sound. The outro is quite good with those chiming notes.

There's some nice singing on it as well. But as a whole it's just all right. Perhaps, for my taste, I'd enjoy it if they sped the tempo up a bit more, which would pretty much ruin the "oldie" type groove"you mention that is the heart of the song.

  I do like the part where he sings "Cause you told me..." that's interesting musically. I guess it's a mixed bag for me right now, but it has grown on me. There are parts of this I like, it's just a matter of if they outweigh the other portions of the song. It's overall better than I remembered but not something I'd seek out, I don't think. Maybe that'll change in time or maybe the parts I do like in the song won't work anymore. 

 I'm fine with it being left off DTT. I don't think there's enough....of something special....to distinguish it on that album but I can understand why others enjoy the song so much.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know... as much as I appreciate the exclusion of What Are You Doing In My Life... I'm not really convinced by the alternate running order.

Well, I appreciate the thoughts put into refuting it never the less :) . For the sake of explaining myself, let me just briefly address some of your objections.

Surrender is too optimistic, too romantic to open an album like Damn The Torpedoes (especially when it's followed by Here Comes My Girl), which is so much about controversy and standing your ground.

Yeah, well.. I see your point, if conditional to a certain way of listening. Both to Surrender and to the album. That is it depends on how straight up you want to hear the album, as opposed to hearing various angles and chronology coming and going in the material. To me it still fits quite well. But you are right in this, and it kinda takes the edge of your argument, doesn't it...

What you are suggesting, of course, is another album with a totally different feel that would also require another title.

It would be another album. Not necessarily with another title, but that again would depend on how you listen to the material I guess. An alternative title would be fun to ponder - the thought never occured to me, cause unlike imagining what the session could've resulted in in terms of sequencing, outtakes, even arrangements or production issues, still is playing around with what we have, what's there. An alternative title would be leaving that realm. It would be entering the hyper hypothetical. Not to say pointless. (Sure, it could be called "Six Hours to Louisiana, Black Coffe Going Cold", it could be called "Cold Nights A Go-Go", or "Century City Love Life"  for all I care, I don't know. Point is I don't think it need another title and if it did it would be beyond me to name it.)

You never really know what else would suddenly not work in the alternate version.

True. Unless you create that alternative version and let it play out. Feel it's pros and cons.Sometimes it's not immediately clear what is missing and what would solve the riddle, but often times you can achieve results that are at least a good deal less puzzling than the original "real" deal.

Again, I'm not saying DTT is in dire need of alternation (I think it's a classic that works really well and I think albums like DJ or Echo or Mojo, or even Southern Accents or perhaps Wildflowers benefits much more from such alternative treatments.) Still, it's fun to me to consider what would've happen had it ran slighlty different - and I think that what the sessions produced in terms of material and the fact that the album itself is at least one filler short of total perfection as I see it, opens this type of secret portal to an imaginary alternative. 

And while you are right in a way.. you cannot put in "spare parts", doing differnt things and then expect the same original product to be the outcome.. - it's another album, we established that - you actually can put in alternative original parts, filling totally different, similar or even same:ish functions and expect an altered original (more or less true to what it once was but hopefully somehow better and more fair to the total of recorded material).

All that said, I usually do this to a lot lesser albums than DTT, albums where I see almost no point in revisiting the original after having created what I find to be the superior version. DTT will always be revisited and enjoyed. Despite What Are You Doing In My Life. :)

 

Edited by Shelter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not getting the hate for "What Are You Doin' In My Life?" and "Century City". Both songs are great, even if you consider them fillers. Which is weird because the album is only 9 tracks long. I do agree as well that "Surrender" would not be an appropriate opener for the album. It would be a great opener on most other albums, but "Refugee" has the right punch and amp to it to kick start this album in a way the past two albums were unable to do. Hell, with all the time they spent on recording that song and making it as perfect as can be, it perfectly sums up the overall tone, sound and feeling of the album in a way that "Surrender" never would be able to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nowhere is a good song. Nice riff tying the whole song together. A bit strange in its structure, not much happens musically during the verses but then the chorus kicks in and the song goes up a notch. It feels like the riff should be the center of that moment but instead the song goes to those other chords, which work real well. It has a pretty good outro, nice to hear Stan and the band let loose a bit during the outro. If it were between this and Surrender to add to DTT I'd go with this. It could've replaced Shadow of a Doubt or gone on right before it.

Definitely a forgotten classic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I appreciate the thoughts put into refuting it never the less :) . For the sake of explaining myself, let me just briefly address some of your objections.

Yeah, well.. I see your point, if conditional to a certain way of listening. Both to Surrender and to the album. That is it depends on how straight up you want to hear the album, as opposed to hearing various angles and chronology coming and going in the material. To me it still fits quite well. But you are right in this, and it kinda takes the edge of your argument, doesn't it...

It would be another album. Not necessarily with another title, but that again would depend on how you listen to the material I guess. An alternative title would be fun to ponder - the thought never occured to me, cause unlike imagining what the session could've resulted in in terms of sequencing, outtakes, even arrangements or production issues, still is playing around with what we have, what's there. An alternative title would be leaving that realm. It would be entering the hyper hypothetical. Not to say pointless. (Sure, it could be called "Six Hours to Louisiana, Black Coffe Going Cold", it could be called "Cold Nights A Go-Go", or "Century City Love Life"  for all I care, I don't know. Point is I don't think it need another title and if it did it would be beyond me to name it.)

True. Unless you create that alternative version and let it play out. Feel it's pros and cons.Sometimes it's not immediately clear what is missing and what would solve the riddle, but often times you can achieve results that are at least a good deal less puzzling than the original "real" deal.

Again, I'm not saying DTT is in dire need of alternation (I think it's a classic that works really well and I think albums like DJ or Echo or Mojo, or even Southern Accents or perhaps Wildflowers benefits much more from such alternative treatments.) Still, it's fun to me to consider what would've happen had it ran slighlty different - and I think that what the sessions produced in terms of material and the fact that the album itself is at least one filler short of total perfection as I see it, opens this type of secret portal to an imaginary alternative. 

And while you are right in a way.. you cannot put in "spare parts", doing differnt things and then expect the same original product to be the outcome.. - it's another album, we established that - you actually can put in alternative original parts, filling totally different, similar or even same:ish functions and expect an altered original (more or less true to what it once was but hopefully somehow better and more fair to the total of recorded material).

All that said, I usually do this to a lot lesser albums than DTT, albums where I see almost no point in revisiting the original after having created what I find to be the superior version. DTT will always be revisited and enjoyed. Despite What Are You Doing In My Life. :)

 

Don't get me wrong, I always appreciate ambitions like yours in constructing alternative running orders for private listening pleasure. I may have been not clear enough on that one. Where it becomes difficult, in my opinion, is when one proposes an allegedly better running order / track list for an album. It's the artists' work, after all. And, like we both said, who knows what other flaws you suddenly create by changing stuff around.

But as mere mind experiments - why not? :D

Edited by TwoGunslingers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having listened to most of this just now I think Louisiana Rain could be the weakest song on here; Shadow of a Doubt and Century City sounded better than they have before to me, but the last track seems a bit disappointing. I understand they wanted something mellow to close out the record but perhaps Casa Dega would've worked better indeed. The song feels more like Tom getting into that southern music vibe that Iovine didn't care for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shadow of a Doubt has grown on me quite a bit, even Century City has improved; I can see why in the years before Full Moon Fever and Wildflowers this was considered their best record.

Eight rocking/pop songs each with a unique melody, interesting bridge, different energy and a soft number to bring the record to a conclusion; with some neat quick instrumentals!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't for the life of me figure out why I never went to see them in concert.  This is one of my favorite albums.

Think it was Refugee that got me to go out and buy it.  Those were fun days. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:28 PM, Shelter said:

I'm not sure 'weakest' is the right word for it. Try 'masterpiece'! ;)

That definitely is the right word!

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:02 PM, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

The song feels more like Tom getting into that southern music vibe that Iovine didn't care for. 

I would have to look it up to be completely sure, but I seem to remember that it actually was Iovine who wanted them to do Louisiana Rain (having heard it on an earlier recording) because he felt it mirrored where the band came from.

Which is not to say, of course, that he cared for this type of music. But in this instance, he may even have encouraged them to cut it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this album, and I love the Iovine trilogy, although Hard Promises is actually my favorite of the three.  But for me, primarily it's the sound of this album which is so compelling.  It's something which I think has been identified in later assessments, thus a perfect combination of songwriting, arrangements, performance and recording.  The dynamics, the sound of it is so important and definitely one of the reasons why the album got over on a worldwide level.  Like people say now: THOSE DRUMS THO - every time I listen to "Don't Do Me Like That," for example, I marvel at those massive crisp fills.  Amazing.   However they got what they wanted out of Stan - eventually - they definitely got it.  And to consider it was all tracked live (although I don't doubt there are some overdubs), how wild is that?  "Here Comes My Girl" will never cease to be a "church" song for me, it's so achingly joyful.  I was having a conversation with one of my close friends who isn't a fan of latter-day TPATH at all and isn't even too fond of Torpedoes and I said, "Look you need to listen to 'Here Comes My Girl' and get your mind right, friend.  Tell me that's not genius!"  There aren't many songs I would proselytize for, but that's one of them - a moment of true Petty/Campbell genius, perfectly expressed by all of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man I do not understand even half that shit Ben is talking about. I’m pretty sure making an ok or even good rock and roll song isn’t that hard but making a great one is just about impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jtx84 said:

I’m pretty sure making an ok or even good rock and roll song isn’t that hard but making a great one is just about impossible.

That's it, yeah..I think you're right!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, jtx84 said:

Man I do not understand even half that shit Ben is talking about

I think they were all smart enough players to know that when something magical was happening musically, to go with it.

You Tell Me is still one of my favorite songs on DTT and it's neat to hear some of the other instruments focused on in that clip. "Chamber music" interesting take, that's incredible to all fall into place like that on the spot.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...