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On 2/13/2019 at 11:48 PM, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Had Waiting For Tonight been on Greatest Hits it would've been huge. I don't know what other album it could fit on. It doesn't seem like it would work on ITGWO. But Greatest Hits with that and MJLD (and keep Something in the Air) would've been even bigger than it is.

I think Waiting For Tonight could have been on FMF at the end, instead of Zombie Zoo (yes I know, some people like Zombie Zoo; I don't like it and Tom Petty himself thought it was a mistake to put it on the album).  That would have made a very strong album even stronger. 

As far as putting WFT on Greatest Hits, that might have been a good move and surely would have made the song better known than it is today.  But I would also remove Something In The Air if WFT had been included.  Sure Howie sings nicely on SITA, but people buy Tom Petty albums to hear songs written and sung by Tom Petty, not cover songs with Howie as the main vocalist.  Also the GH album already was adding one song that hinted at marijuana use (MJLD), so did it really need to add two of them?   The GH is better now with Stop Draggin' My Heart Around, IMO.  s  

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7 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Waiting For Tonight could have been on FMF at the end, instead of Zombie Zoo (yes I know, some people like Zombie Zoo; I don't like it

No. I think it would've ended the album on a wrong note. Zombie Zoo is the perfect mad carnivelsque kinda song, upbeat, weird, even connecting (loosely) Free Fallin with its vampire reference to the title of the last song. 

8 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

As far as putting WFT on Greatest Hits, that might have been a good move and surely would have made the song better known than it is today.

Definitely. How could any record executive not hear that and thing BIG HIT?! Especially with the Bangles on there. That would've been two big TPATH songs with female singers becoming huge. It's such a little known song. Oh well.

9 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Something In The Air if WFT had been included.  Sure Howie sings nicely on SITA, but people buy Tom Petty albums to hear songs written and sung by Tom Petty, not cover songs

I think it was just a  fun song thrown on there, I don't really know what the motivation was; but while I'm generally a fan of originals over covers I much prefer the original GH with Something rather than Stop Draggin'. The latter is a good song but is more of a Stevie Nicks song, I could see why they left it off. And while it is all right as a tune and fits the criteria of a big radio hit, I much prefer to listen to Something in the Air; there's a nice pun intended, breeziness to the tune that caps off the record on just the right note.

cheers

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12 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I agree with the first part; FMF does sound great immediately. I disagree about something being missing or "lite". I reckon a lot of the record's power comes from the simplicity; I Won't Back Down lays it all bare and while it's enjoyable to have music grown you or to discover something more, hidden layers and such, there's also something to be said about songwriting so potent it grabs you at first listen and that's one of FMF's greatest strengths.

"Layers" is a good way to describe LMU vs. FMF.  As you indicated, I'm not calling FMF "Heartbreakers Lite" due to a lack of rocking or lack of quality songs.  FMF also has plenty of the great Mike Campbell guitar work.  But to me it's missing the interesting layers that were on the TPATH albums that preceded it.  And that's fine, it's a "Tom Petty" album, not a "Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers" album.

Don't get me wrong, I love FMF and still enjoy listening to it once in a great while.  I practically wore it out when it was new - it was the last TP/TPATH album I bought on vinyl, as we were all kind of forced to switch to CDs by the time ITGWO came out.  I thought it was one of his/their best albums, and I still feel that way.  When someone asks for a suggestion on which TP/TPATH album to hear first, I usually recommend FMF, even though it's not in my top 5 favorites.  Reason being, the production is so clean, you can hear Petty's words very clearly, you can hear Mike's guitar very clearly. 

FMF is a very approachable album, yet it showcases the elements of Petty a great songwriter and singer, and Campbell as a great lead guitarist.  But that's also what I meant by "Heartbreakers lite", it's not densely populated with the contributions of the rest of the band.  It's a good album to "start here" and then add the others, IMO.  My other choice for a "starter" TP/TPATH album would be Hard Promises, as to my thinking that one showcases a sound that is probably most "typical" for their entire history (before and after) and it's also just a great album full of great songs.  On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend LMU as someone's first TP/TPATH album, even though I think it's awesome once your already a fan and give it a full chance.  (Maybe this should be a topic on its own, what album would you recommend to someone first, maybe it's already been done).  

12 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

And yet, while simple the lyrics can convey a deeper meaning to the listener, not perhaps as some lyrical puzzle to figure out but with a perfect balance of the vague and the specific, like "Me and Del were singin...little Runaway..." and "...down this road, I'm pickin' up, whatever is mine." 

I love the Del Shannon Runaway connection on Runnin' Down A Dream.  I didn't even realize until many years later that not only did Tom produce a couple of Del's records, and got Howie from Del's band, but all of the original TPATH performed Runaway with Del at that filmed New Year's Eve concert (1978/79). And of course that video was included on DVD in the deluxe Live Anthology box, though unfortunately it cut the Runaway performance (I'm guessing due to an inability to work out financial deal with Del's estate, which is really sad and a poor decision on his estate's part, if that's what happened).  But when I heard RDAD now, I think not only of a guy singing in the car along with Del on the radio, but also of TPATH backing Del on that great 1970's performance of Runaway.          

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7 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:
24 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Something In The Air if WFT had been included.  Sure Howie sings nicely on SITA, but people buy Tom Petty albums to hear songs written and sung by Tom Petty, not cover songs

I think it was just a  fun song thrown on there, I don't really know what the motivation was; but while I'm generally a fan of originals over covers I much prefer the original GH with Something rather than Stop Draggin'. The latter is a good song but is more of a Stevie Nicks song, I could see why they left it off. And while it is all right as a tune and fits the criteria of a big radio hit, I much prefer to listen to Something in the Air; there's a nice pun intended, breeziness to the tune that caps off the record on just the right note.

I actually don't have the original GH album, I didn't see the point in buying it at the time it came out, and then when I got the boxed Playback set it had MJLD on it anyway.  So I don't know how that album really flows, in its intended order.  I think the motivation was that Tom wanted to be more inclusive in showing TPATH as a "band" after doing the solo FMF album mostly without them, other than Mike.  Thus we had Stan singing lead on a song during each concert of the FMF and ITGWO tours, Ben playing Benmont's Boogie (and all the other various names Tom chose to give it, before each performance), and eventually Howie doing a co-vocal or mostly lead vocal, along with Tom on SITA, at the Gainesville 1993 Homecoming concert, as well as on the GH album.  As to why they chose that particular cover song, maybe it was a phase of including pot-oriented songs to bring in a new fan base, who knows.  Not that Tom or the existing fan base didn't include a lot of users, but there may have been some intent to expand it.  

As to Stop Draggin' My Heart Around, yes Stevie Nicks gets a bit more of the vocal than Tom, but it's a co-vocal (or duet).  Also, SDMHA was written by Tom and Mike, and was backed solely (other than some female backing vocals) by TPATH circa 1981 (including Phil Jones on percussion), with the exception that Duck Dunn played bass on the track instead of Ron Blair.  So it's pretty fully a TPATH song despite Stevie's prominent vocals.   Plus Duck Dunn was kind of an honorary Heartbreaker even before SDMHA.  

20 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

No. I think it would've ended the album on a wrong note. Zombie Zoo is the perfect mad carnivelsque kinda song, upbeat, weird, even connecting (loosely) Free Fallin with its vampire reference to the title of the last song. 

I don't know - I still think Waiting For Tonight would give the perfect ending to FMF, with the "Goodnight My Love" backing vocals from The Bangles.  But maybe the ordering of some other tracks would have to be changed, because Alright For Now as 3rd to last, and then WFT as last, might give the album too much of a sleepy feeling at the end.  When I listen to the album now, I stop after A Mind With A Heart of Its Own, which gives it kind of an upbeat and somewhat silly ending.  So maybe I see your point, but to me the problem would become where to put Alright For Now, if WFT had replaced ZZ as the final song.     

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9 minutes ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Don't get me wrong, I love FMF and still enjoy listening to it once in a great while. 

I understand. I barely listen to it myself these days because I overplayed it; though a recent listen made it sound as fresh and fun as ever.

It's a good one to recommend. Most likely the big ones are DTT, FMF and WF besides GH for most people.

cheers

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1 hour ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:
6 hours ago, Jay said:

To me the tracks don't need to "flow" I either like them or I don't.

 

I understand. I like an album that I can throw on and listen to from start to finish like Hypnotic Eye. Good thing the skip button was invented.

For me, Let Me Up (I've Had Enough) works as an entire album, and does have "flow", at least musically.  I didn't feel that way initially, but after multiple listenings, I feel the songs do work together, in the given track order.  Lyrically it might be a little jarring to have the heartfelt How Many More Days, followed by Let Me Up (the title track).  But to me the album "flows" even if it doesn't quite tell a story.  It almost tells a story though, considering the beginning and ending songs.  

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7 minutes ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

It's a good one to recommend. Most likely the big ones are DTT, FMF and WF besides GH for most people.

Those are the "big" albums for sure, in terms of popularity and career impact.  However, I'm sure neither you or I would recommend WF as someone's first TP/TPATH album, due to it being highly polarizing even among TPATH fans ("best ever" or "meh, it's ok I guess").  Plus for the people who do truly love WF - if they heard it first, everything else would seem like a step down.

GH I actually wouldn't recommend either, because people risk missing how deep most of the regular albums are in great songs, start to finish.  I have read customer reviews where people will say "Greatest Hits" is all the Tom Petty you need.  Or maybe they'll say "GH + WF is all you need".  Obviously I couldn't disagree more, but some people might fall for that.  Plus I like hearing the original songs in the context of the original album, unless it's something like Highway Companion which might benefit from some track order tweaking.   

DTT - maybe, but it's a pretty dense and intense album and the first track Refugee is kind of a hard rock song which isn't everyone's cup of tea stylistically.  Which is not to say that TPATH fans don't all love Refugee (I think they do), but a first timer might hear that song and think TP/TPATH is all hard rock, and maybe not give the rest a fair chance. 

Which is another reason I could see Hard Promises being a good introductory album, it starts out with The Waiting which might be the closest thing to a "typical" TPATH career sound/style.  And the rest of the album follows in similar fashion, yet it's varied enough to hold the listener's interest.   

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8 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

, I'm sure neither you or I would recommend WF as someone's first TP/TPATH album,

It depends on the potential listener.

8 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

GH I actually wouldn't recommend either, because people risk missing how deep most of the regular albums are

Again, I feel like it depends on the person; however, probably GH doesn't need to be recommended as its what most people/casual listeners would gravitate towards.

8 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

"Greatest Hits" is all the Tom Petty you need. 

Depends on the per---you get the point ha ha!

8 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

DTT - maybe, but it's a pretty dense and intense album and the first track Refugee is kind of a hard rock song which isn't everyone's cup of tea stylistically.

I don't think of Refugee as hard rock; I realize how people label rock differs but to me it was just a rock-n-roll song, not any harder than Finding Out or All or Nothin'. 

 

9 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

but a first timer might hear that song and think TP/TPATH is all hard rock, and maybe not give the rest a fair chance. 

I don't know, I think people would respond the same way that people did in the 70s with DTT, enjoing the smooth transition from Refugee to HCMG. 

9 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

Hard Promises being a good introductory album, it starts out with The Waiting which might be the closest thing to a "typical" TPATH career sound/style.  And the rest of the album follows in similar fashion, yet it's varied enough to hold the listener's interest.   

Interesting take. I disagree. I think Hard Promises would be a rough first album generally speaking. Of course, it could very well be some peoples' first TPATH and they love it, I jusdt think generally, aside from The Waiting it's a bit of a dark and moody record, not quite a good introduction to the band, though the Waiting is just one of their catchiest tunes. You should hear it when Eddie Vedder joined TPATH on stage to perform it. I know how much you love his singing and most of all when he joins another band on stage.

Actually, it was a definite highpoint in concert to experience that first hand at Summerfest.

Back to HP, if someone is more into moody music, it could be a good first record as aside from the happy sound of the opening track most of the record is angular, atmospheric and a bit on the down side.

ciao

 

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2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I think Hard Promises would be a rough first album generally speaking ... aside from The Waiting it's a bit of a dark and moody record, not quite a good introduction to the band, though the Waiting is just one of their catchiest tunes.

I hadn't really thought of HP as a dark and moody album, other than The Waiting.  I see your point now, on some of the songs, though let's face it - TP's albums always had some dark and moody songs.  Not extremely dark (like Pearl Jam, hah Jeremy) but kind of downbeat lyrically - there isn't a single Petty album that's nonstop sunshine and rainbows. 

I think a lot of Petty's lyrics for many of his "typical" songs are encapsulated in the song Straight Into Darkness, a rough ride in life offset with plenty of defiance and optimism.  Maybe I'm taken with the fact that The Waiting is such a great song, and I like the jangly sound throughout HP, but I just haven't thought of it as overly dark or moody.  But looking at the tracklist now, only The Waiting, King's Road, and A Thing About You, seem upbeat/non-moody.    

2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

I don't know, I think people would respond the same way that people did in the 70s with DTT, enjoing the smooth transition from Refugee to HCMG. 

I might have thought so too.  But I did give the DTT CD to a girlfriend, as an introduction to TPATH, and she hated it.  Apparently she knew nothing about Tom Petty before that.  I later found out that her taste in music ran to Barry Manilow and horn-laden soul-type songs.  I guess I should have put on TPATH's Down The Line for her, but that's hardly what TP/TPATH is about.  Yes I couldn't see that relationship working out either, and it didn't.  But it made me think that maybe DTT wasn't a great introductory album for everyone - as you say, it depends on the person. 

I think FMF is the safest choice, if you don't know their taste ahead of time.  Even though DTT is the album that made me a fan, just a few months after it came out (i.e. early 1980), and it's still my favorite in his/their album catalog.       

2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

... the Waiting is just one of their catchiest tunes. You should hear it when Eddie Vedder joined TPATH on stage to perform it. I know how much you love his singing and most of all when he joins another band on stage.

Ha ha, yes that literally made me laugh out loud when I read it.  Not just a "lol" as in "that's funny" but a true out loud laugher.  Please take back Eddie Vedder, give him some place to go!  Off other people's stages, thank you.   

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