MaryJanes2ndLastDance

I used to be a member there till you had to become a paid member of the fan club; hadn't thought about it in years. cheers

I'm not asking you to think someone drawing a connection between race and Rebels is valid, all I'm saying is can't you see why they could when nearly an entire verse is dedicated to "burning cornfields" etc. You said it yourself, the self-proclaimed "rebel" is blaming it on the war...which is about race! Doesn't mean you have to view the song that way and obviously you don't but I just don't understand why you can't see how others could interpret it that way. But hey, this ain't a purity test! If you can't, you can't, I won't push on this anymore. I can appreciate that. It certainly sounded like it as well so I'm glad you said so, I don't think it's patting yourself on the back at all and I respect where you're coming from on the topic. cheers

Interestingly enough a regular at a place I frequent was reading a book on the Civil War, even took trips to locales from the war and I happened to run into him this evening; when I asked him about the Federal Gov vs State's Rights interpretation; he instantly got mad; not at me but at the idea itself, likened it to Flat Earth Theory. I told him I'd been raised with the idea it was about slavery but given our govt's history and my cynicism towards politics could see it as a possibility. His vehemence on the issue was plain and he went on to quote the Confederacy's vice president directly referencing the fight over slavery. Anyway, there you go, who knows who one may run into in life. cheers

But the whole war was about race! Again, it's fine if you don't want to interpret the song that way, but surely you can see why others might or if not that, could use it as entry point for the discussion of race...since the song directly references a war about the very subject...! Again, I don't expect you to see it that way but surely you could be open to the idea of why others might... What else? For me, the irony here is I'm in the middle of a conversation on race and the civil war when I thought the book itself went on too long in those directions, see my initial post and I put Southern Accents in the cellar along with Echo, Last DJ And Highway Companion. Trying to see things from other's perspective to a limited degree can be interesting to me but I"m usually quite clear on what I do believe and won't hesitate to say so: case in point, I thought the set lists for TPATH were largely mediocre overall given the amount of material they had to draw from and the collective talent and ability within the band. That's something I believe. cheers

What are you talking about? Where did I ever defend the South's misguided cause. And for that matter, misguided doesn't do it justice, it was downright fucking evil. You're ignoring the fact that someone could interpret it that way, which, since the Civil War was fought to end slavery this lyric directly deals with and race. I don't know why you refuse to see that even as a possibility for others to have. I don't get it. I'm not above acknowledging my ignorance, but a discussion of an issue isn't a tacit endorsement, again, I don't understand why you can't see that. I freely admit that the idea, even as a concept regarding the true motivations of the civil war were as I learned them originally which was the elimination of slavery, but again, discucssing it or any other interpretation, well informed or otherwise again, isn't an endorsement of said concept. cheers

I actually spoke to an amateur Civil War historian just a few minutes ago and came on to say that yes, I agree with you on this point; southern revisionist bullshit. cheers

I'm not making that argument. I said, "One could make that argument" because many people have, as to the validity of it, I honestly don't know. I'd like to think the basis of the Civil War was eliminating Slavery but I'm also familiar with how governments screw over their populaces. But to reiterate, I'm not making that argument. Could very well be. And certainly, slavery couldn't last in this country and Thank God it didn't. And thank those who fought to end it. On the one hand you're saying the Civil War was fought over slavery but at the same time you're saying there's nothing to do with race in a song that talks about cornfields burning down..during the civil war! It seems contradictory to me. I agree about the message in contrast with the music. However you want to interpret the song is fine, and certainly if this is your favorite TPATH tune I could see why you feel the way you do about it. But I can see someone reading those lines: Even before my father's father They called us all rebelsWhile they burned our cornfieldsAnd left our cities leveledI can still feel the eyes of those blue-bellied devils ...and returning to the Civil War and the issue of Slavery and thus race. I'm not saying you have to view the song that way but I can see why the author (or others) did or do. I should also point out that I don't really have a horse in this race, I enjoy exploring the different interpretations or what I perceive them to be in the book and with the meaning of the album or in this case, the song Rebels. But please don't confuse examining these different points of view with any particular endorsement of them, that's not my intent. What I was going for was understanding (maybe) how or why from the first track of the record there was a way into the race discussion for Washburne. Pure supposition on my part but I think it's interesting. cheers

I don't think the author missed the point of the song. One could argue the Civil War was really about Federal Government over States' Rights but even so the issue of Slavery was still a part of that as well. Which returns to race. So, no, I could see why Rebels could be an entry point for the discussion, since even using the Civil War/South Will Rise Again! as a self-satisfied excuse for why his life didn't turn out the way it did goes back to race. cheers

I never thought about it before but that's because I really never cared if they're a band from Florida or LA. Why not both? Who cares really? But the point he raised and you emphasized seems valid...interesting even if there was no deliberate attempt on Tom's part, of which, I don't see him caring enough to consciously will such a change in perception, but I could be wrong. Yeah, maybe it was the video director's call and somehow that image combined with the mellow song are the result. Certainly it was my perception till I heard his radio interview about him not being laid-back at all. Maybe too, some of it was the genuine happiness he was experiencing after the horror of the arson and the tumultuous (?) years of the band around that time. Oh. Well, maybe someone else will be along to pick up that particular gauntlet; though I do like your reasoning as to why you think of them as southern. And I agree, Mudcrutch was an incredibly good call on Tom's part. cheers

I would think it's the opposite right? Race is biology. A Korean man is different from an Irish woman. Pick whatever examples you like. I think the more important thing is quality of character, how one exercises their free will. Along with that are matters of the soul, both of which I find more interesting than race as a topic. While the biological differences exist, that we all share this world and its creatures is what counts and how we treat each other and them, of which, if you haven't gathered, I'm in favor of kindness, generosity, justice tempered with mercy. cheers

There should be some Hobbits there as well, unnoticed of course...

That's too bad. I was disappointed when I first purchased High Grass Dogs and the whole thing did feel rather truncated. I much preferred my bootleg copy I purchased on VHS of the Hamburg show from '99. cheers

Nuance is good and noted about the several befores and afters true and one could say the original band ended when Ron quit; I was more going on about the ethos of the early band in relation to this release and not a direct, literal take. Perhaps if when Steve joined they continued writing songs in the vein of ITGWO or DTT his arrival may not seem like such a line of demarcation but not only did the drummer change but Tom experienced a change/growth in his songwriting. Take the Highway, to me, is notable as a last hurrah because it's an official tour document of this version of the band which even with the addition of Howie and Scott has more in common with the band who recorded DTT than what came after. cheers

I liked that clip, sounded a bit of a mix of garage rock and a lost song from ITGWO, that slide (?) guitar. I like that sound. If Mudcrutch later became the country offshoot of TPATH, then maybe the Dirty Knobs will be the garage band offshoot. Not to diminish either outfit by calling them that though. cheers

Indeed. Some think Echo's the bees knees, others a dreary slog, some prefer the Stan years to Steve's turn, there is a definite wide variety of taste beyond the greatest hits here. I think Hypnotic Eye is their best TPATH album and that came nearly 40 years in their career. cheers

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/soundgarden-to-release-live-from-the-artists-den.841461/ The 29 song-show comprising almost two and a half hours, encompasses the band’s rich musical legacy, spanning their early years with ‘Hunted Down,’ through their monumental albums Badmotorfinger and Superunknown respectively with ‘Outshined’ and ‘Black Hole Sun,’ and to their final record, with nearly every song from King Animal including ‘By Crooked Steps’ and ‘Been Away Too Long.’ Live From The Artists Den features 21 songs never before released on a Soundgarden concert film, https://www.clashmusic.com/reviews/soundgarden-live-from-the-artists-den The age-old question when it comes to live albums is wherever to handpick the material best representing a group's stage power or authentically drop the entire set, lags and all. At 29 tracks, including intro and outro numbers, the band's second live album proves an uneven marathon with flashes of brilliance.

Here's the audio from the livepetty site: https://livepetty.com/1985-09-22-champaign-il-sbd/ https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/jb4zouD9EvigsxP9aP1Xx83etuXo3MVveP7QWViGomQ?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&mgh=1

The technical term is AQZ which stands for advanced quiet zone. This is when the bandleader gives a cue and the band brings down the volume, often times the tempo for some soloing and/or to get the crowd involved or to create the dynamic tension and power of building back to a musical climax. Go back and watch any live video and you can see Tom often signaling with subtle eyebrow and hand gestures, forming AQZ. I jest. Actually I don't know if there is a technical term for it; I've heard it as a band "breaking it down" or "bringing it down." TPATH did it frequently. But not to disillusion you but it's fairly easy, I've done it with other amateur musicians in a bar, or outside in a park, usually with a head gesture or even saying, "let's bring it down." So I figure if a bunch of amateurs pounding out some chords and jamming and soloing for the fun of it can do it, any professional band can do it quite easily; in fact, that level of rehearsal before they even perform gave them enough of a connection to act as one as it were. My point is, playing a bit of music you get a feel for when you can "bring it down", so a pro band of TPATH's caliber could do it easily and quickly, even on their first tour. As for effectiveness, I think it's very powerful in concert, and you can tell how much Tom enjoying hearing Benmont (or Mike) take the spotlight in those moments. cheers

Ha ha, yeah I'm in the minority on that one. I think with some exception this is a pretty common take. While those albums have some bright spots (and I do prefer LMU to SA) I agree that some of his best work was yet to come. For me, and this again could be a minority opinion, I think a mix of Wildflowers and Echo thru Last DJ was another glum period, picking up again with Mudcrutch and peaking with Hypnotic Eye which I have to say, for a last album it's a definite high to go out on. Someone should write a "...and the Heartbreakers" book, and get their perception of what it was like being in the band. Just title it that..."...AND THE HEARTBREAKERS." I think it would be a good companion to CONVERSATIONS and PETTY: The Biography. cheers

That would explain why they still haven't delivered the master tapes to my place. I mean, I called 'em up and requested them, said I had a coupon.

I think he really needed to get a few things off his chest about the flag/south/racism and in relation to his experiences growing up in the South, which would've been all right if it had been counterbalanced with more writing on the album and more of the interviews with Benmont and Mike. Especially the former in my opinion. The writer was clearly a fan of the band and as such, it's a bit disappointing he went down the avenues he did when others would've been (in my opinion) more interesting. Oh well. I'd give his take on a different TPATH album another go were he to write one. cheers

No doubt It Ain't Nothin' To Me is one of your favorites...I mean, how could it not be?

Bump.

Good luck Nurk! I hope this goes well...the whole 'Farm is pullin' for ya!