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MaryJanes2ndLastDance

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Posts posted by MaryJanes2ndLastDance

  3. Posted · Report reply

    7 hours ago, Mr Timba said:

    It's hard to understand why Casa Dega was only a B side. A really great song, and better than some of the songs of DTT.

    I like Casa Dega a lot. I think if it had replaced Louisiana Rain (and I'm not saying that's what would've happened) it leaves the album on more of a mysterious, questioning feeling, while Louisiana leaves it on more of an unequivocal sad moment but feels more definitive. In other words, ending DTT with Casa feels like ending it with a question, versus Louisiana as more of a sad statement.

    7 hours ago, Mr Timba said:

    Waiting for tonight is a great song, but to my taste that song does't fit well into "Full moon fever". (It is a FMV outtake?).

    I think it should've been added to Greatest Hits and would've turned into one like Mary Jane. No, I don't think it works on FMF.

    7 hours ago, Mr Timba said:

    Keeping me alive is one of my favourite songs.

    I think Keeping Me Alive could've ended Long After Dark, the "country" vibe an interesting contrast to the rest of the record though I forget if it was considered for Long or Hard Promises, though I'm thinking the former.

    cheers

  4. Posted · Report reply

    3 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

    Well, I was being polemic and teasing y'all a bit.

    Ha ha! For me, FMF and HE are at the top not just because they have such good songs but the albums tracklisting flows; after Zombie Zoo one can go right back into Free Fallin' and after Shadow People to American Dream Plan B and start all over again. DTT and Long After Dark are just a little below them and just a little below them are ITGWO and She's The One. After that it's a generally shifting jumble. When it comes to the moodier side of Tom's music I think I lean towards more Mojo than WF and more WF than Echo.

    But morose or introspective or just plain sad songs by Tom generally don't work for me. Or I really have to be in the mood for the dreariness of most Echo tracks. Don't Fade On Me is particularly grim yet the instrumentation, lyrics and brevity make it powerful, whereas a lot of Echo is musically dull or bland and the lyrics just depressing, and while there's room for sad lyrics, the combination on that album, let alone its length make it a slog.

    Like Drew noted in a different topic, there's depth to Let Me Up and a lot going on in each track. I think the Last Dj benefited at first anyway,  coming on the heels of Echo; any kind of increased tempo and energy felt very welcome, but over time a lot of the flaws of the record stand out and a bit of a faster tempo can't disguise what I think of as some bland songwriting.

    Take Joe for instance, the music is quite harsh but in a grating way so I don't even like hearing it; while maybe that was the intent, pairing harsh music with bitter, sharp lyrics the result is a track I rarely listen to because the music is just unpleasant, too bright and sharp and terrible. Brittle even. Some of Lost Children feels like a rehashed riff from Mary jane though the mellower parts of that number somewhat salvage the tune. I sort of like When A Kid goes bad but outside of some soloing live and that it has energy compared to the rest o the album, taken on its own the song is just middle of the road. It seems better when compared to The man who loves women or have love will travel but only because those are at the bottom of the barrel.

    Mojo, when it works, offers a lot of moodiness within a lot of heavy grooving by the band. Maybe I'd like Joe more if it had been recorded with more of a Mojo sound, but then gain, perhaps thechords tehy use at the intro would grate regardless of how it was recorded. But I think the "blues" record evokes more interesting feelings with some atypically longer songs for the band, whereas Echo, Last Dj are largely a bland mess. Even the defiance of the Dj's title track is muted by the acoustics and the beat, it felt like it should've had more in common with Black Leather Woman in terms of attitude than how it ended up. 

    2 hours ago, Shelter said:

    Seems like fans in general have very strong opinions one way or the other about these albums, though.. Very polarizing, yes. Which I find fascinating in itself.

    I guess in retrospect I can see why HE seemed to garner extreme responses, as the band went all in on making a rock-n-roll record, not a blues experiment or a concept record or focusing on more moody or sad emotional moments but something that recalls the harder edge (for TPATH anyway, no one's going to mistake them for Queens of the Stone Age or the Ramones---and for some that's a relief) of their earlier albums. If per interviews Tom viewed Long After Dark as going backwards a bit or just staying in place, then HE was a return to that style of album but with years of experience. It could've been terrible, could've been an album worth of Joes but not only do they rock in different ways, American Dream Plan B having a heavy stomp while Fault Line grooves along like a 60s spy movie, but they offer up Full Grown Boy which is something new for them in terms of music, beat, lightness. 

    But while HE is more of a rock album than they'd released in years, it's also through the current mode of the band, so there isn't that chamber music feel and Benmont is far from prominent and some songs, like Power Drunk and Sins of My Youth, for me anyway, needed a bit of time to realize just how good they are. If someone's already disappointed with the record I could see them not giving them a chance; at the same time, there's just that un-quantifiable reason for why one likes things or doesn't and Two Gunslingers could listen to HE fifty times in a row (but why torture the lad...!) and still feel the same as he does now.

    The album rocks with the heaviness of Mojo and the stomp of Steve's drumming, which is different from Long After Dark but the songwriting and energy work, the album both rocking and rolling, yet with some heavy groove of the later albums, each song distinctive and flowing well from one to the other.

    cheers

  5. Posted · Report reply

    13 minutes ago, Big Blue Sky said:

    Could you possibly take another run at this? The negative negatives double-or-nothing have me scratching my head as to your meaning. ❤️

    Writing in a second or third language is impressive when Shelter does it. Here is my attempt with the translation below:

     

    Je pense a Tom Petty. Il est tres bon musician. Il joue aux guitar et vox. Il n'est pas gross. Quelle j'ecoutes Tom's musique je suis et bon temps. Vraiment, Hypnotic D'oil est le magnifuqe record a outre records pour Tom Petty et les Heartbreakers. Je pense le set list est mal. Pourqoi ils sons bon musiue ne joue pas. Pourquoi pas, je ne sais pas. J'ecoute Tom Petty et les Heartbreakers au trois monthes aux 'heure.

     

    ----

    I think about Tom Petty. He is very good musician. He plays guitar and vox. He is not fat. What I listen to Tom's music I am and good time. Really, Hypnotic Oil is the record breaking record for Tom Petty and Heartbreakers. I think the set list is wrong. Why they sound good music does not play. Why not, I do not know. I'm listening to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers every three months on the hour.

    Big Blue Sky reacted to this

  6. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

    Absolutely!  Those are terrific songs.

    Hear! Hear!

    1 hour ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

    There's no right or wrong on whether it's great from start to finish, or whether it's better than "Hypnotic Eye".  Each of those albums has it's own merits, very strong merits to many people.

    Yes and it's the discussion of those differences that are interesting.

    cheers

  7. Posted · Report reply

    On September 3, 2019 at 3:19 AM, Shelter said:

    Also here:

    Wow what a voice! Sounds like a frontman's voice.

    Didn't listen to all of it but from what I heard, musically it's all right, not really my cup o' tea but some of it seems like pop-song hit singles. Sounds like a mix of the 60s, Beach Boys and Buddy Holly. Close To You sounds like it would have girls dancing to it around the country.

    Rest in peace Mr. Epstein. 

  9. Posted · Report reply

    I think the album is still great, from the acoustic breakdown in American Dream Plan B, the delicate almost waltzing Full Grown Boy, the defiance of All You Can Carry and the underrated Power Drunk with its I don't know what to call it, the 'B' section of the song around 2:25 and during the outro that contrasts with the main riff. I'll stop there before I go on about each track all over again!

    For me, each song has its own character, riff/chord progression with lyrics that makes them stand out and frankly, its a record with much needed energy after Echo and the Last Dj. They could've just gone "elder statesman" of rock at that point in their career, more swingings and have loves will travel but they went with an all out rock-n-roll record. 

    6 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

    bluesrock blur

    I'd say Burnt Out Town, Power Drunk and Shadow People lean most towards bluesrock but again, I think each are distinctive though Burnt Out Town is probably the most generic and feels more in common with Mojo than its peers on this album. It's too bad Forgotten Man leans so heavily on Bo Diddley (?) as I like the rollicking tempo and it has some sharp lyrics. Probably Burnt Out Town and Forgotten Man are the weakest and most derivative of the bunch. However, their placement on the album buoys them and both are so short and have enough fun energy that while weak in relation to the other tracks, are still pretty entertaining.

    My feelings on Shadow People vary depending on my mood but I think it was the right number to end the album on. It's interesting how different everyone's taste is, to me Echo and Last Dj are more of a bland paste. HE has an eclectic mix of rock-n-roll songs, the musically experimental Full Grown Boy and even an attempt at the epic with Shadow People. And as if that wasn't enough, it all wraps up with a sweet acoustic coda by Tom. Strange too, the last TPATH album ends with Tom alone, just his plaintive voice and guitar, yet singing optimistically.

    I don't recall if you saw them on that tour Two Gunslingers, but if so, at least you got two of the three songs you like played...!

    cheers

  11. Posted · Report reply

    16 hours ago, Mr Timba said:

    But most of all the hope. I think the line which defines the whole thing best: Everything changed, then changed again. As always.

    I can appreciate it. Aside from my take on the album, I understand why it connected with so many people over the years and on top of that, could be their best sounding record or at least up in the top three. Thanks for sharing.

    cheers

  12. Posted · Report reply

    12 hours ago, Zargo said:

    1.28 - 1.35 for example. Then listen to 1.35 - 1.46 of You Wreck Me. Both riffs then feature again prominently at the end of each song.  Tnink About Me is a much busier song, as you say. You have to love lyrics like "Your boyfriend got a big red car. Got a compact disc, got a VCR."

    I hear it; not the main chord progression of You Wreck Me but another set in the song and at the end. Yeah, those are funny lyrics. Most of Let Me Up is swagger and attitude. 

    cheers

  13. Posted · Report reply

    On September 1, 2019 at 3:28 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

    Tom always came up with something memorable in his songs, without resorting to overly complex chords or lyrical gimmickry to make (or obscure) his point.   

    Oh yeah. It's how Mike and Benmont came up with their parts, even if it were a simple chord from the latter or a few perfectly timed notes from the former...they were memorable parts!

    Good point about Stan as well, it seems like perhaps he had some of the more complex parts relative to his bandmates and this complexity, while playing just behind the beat, balanced against the simplicity, made his drumming stand out and be so cherished by the fans that to this day people will still lament his firing. 

    But I think complex chords and lyrical obfuscation are valid too.

    cheers

  14. Posted · Report reply

    On September 1, 2019 at 3:28 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

    I doubt it would make much of a ripple in the overall song pond.

    Interesting. You may be right in that the song benefits as coming from Tom Petty and wouldn't have made half the impression from a new band. I just don't know; it's like when people mess with the track listing of Full Moon Fever, I'm so used to it as is, I won't accept variations.  Certainly listening to the studio version now it's a very bright and cheery track and sounds fresh since I'm so used to hearing the live versions. I just don't if I'd have liked it had someone else written it. 

    On September 1, 2019 at 3:28 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

    I don't think it's fair though to focus on the simple chords and simple lyrics as being representative of Petty's career.  Musically I feel Petty's songs are more complex than that, and instrumentally the Heartbreaker's contributions have been complex as a whole.

    I think the complexity is largely hidden or even nearly subliminal, as when I watched some making of tracks online featuring Benmont and he broke down how the different parts worked and I heard things I wasn't even aware of. I think perhaps, you and I are just reading different things when we're discussing simple or complex. For me, it's less about the two terms and more I would say the way they blended simple parts taken on their own together is the artistry. In fact, even coming up with the right set of notes around what each of them was doing was an artform all its own.

    When I say simple, I mean songs that are composed of simple riffs to play or just basic chords, though I guess Tom sometimes used unusual chords, but the point is, what they did with them to me, is quite good...! 

    As a contrast, I'd say a Rush song is complex compared to a Tom Petty song. More involved parts, more complicated riffs and so on but I don't view complex as better than simple, actually, I really loves simple music. Again, it's maybe because simple sometimes has a negative connotation to it. Ramones songs are simple but they rock! 

    On September 1, 2019 at 3:28 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

    They often played as a 6 piece band - with either Phil Jones or Scott Thurston as the 6th piece - and it all came together beautifully.   Stan's drum patterns alone were often quite complex in the context of an entire album or entire concert, same for Benmont's keyboard work and Mike's guitar.  In fact the musical strength for me of "Hypnotic Eye" is not the written melody but the complex and well-integrated instrumentation.   

    Nicely said, I pretty much agree, though I don't think of Mike and Benmont's playing aside from some solos live as complex, though they could be if they so chose. I guess Mojo was a big stretch for the band and for Mike's playing but that's another topic.

    On September 1, 2019 at 3:28 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

    As far as lyrics, those are deceptively simple too.  Bob Dylan wrote complex, frankly cryptic lyrics, with some clever wordplay such as rhyming "diplomat"  (on the "chrome horse") with "Siamese Cat".  But for me Petty was a much more appealing lyricist than Dylan, because Petty could reach people in a straightforward way, using simple phrases to so effectively connect with people's emotions. 

    I like both simple and complex or cryptic lyrics. I'm fine with both, it's how they work within the music, in fact, for me, the quality of the latter creates an emotional feeling with cryptic or complex wordplay lyrics too. I might not know what is really being said but I don't really care.

    But back to Tom, yes, I think he had a gift to come up with perfect simple phrases and meld them to the music. I think it's in the Zollo book where he says that if it was really so simple more people would do it. Learning To Fly has simple chords and simple lyrics but it all works together just fine. And I agree, he hits the emotional target with a great many people. However, and I'm not even a fan of Dylan, but I'd say that he connects as well, maybe with simple lyrics in some songs (I don't know, just a guess) but also with his cleverness, and not just because a listener gets a reference or finds the topic interesting but because his lyrical imagery is powerful enough to stir the emotions even if at first listen they sound like gibberish. Like I said, I'm not a Dylan fan but I could see this being the case.

    And really, I think both are fine, it's variety, spice, life, right?!

    On September 1, 2019 at 3:28 PM, TheSameOldDrew said:

    "She threw down her golden band, crushed it with her feet into the sand" uses simple phrasing, yet hits home much more than those of an obscurely clever wordsmith.  "Dreams fade, hope dies hard" from the same song - five simple words, but who else put them together like that?  And so many Petty songs are like that, on various topics.  "My life's worth more than the minimum wage".  "Louisiana rain is falling just like tears, running down my face, washing out the years".  "I don't wanna end up in a room all alone, don't want to end up someone that I don't even know" - "Lover I await the day, good fortune comes our way, and we ride down the King's Highway".  "Take this chance, take this dream, baby take this heart - deliver me". "I saw you singing to no one, I saw you dancing all alone, one day you belonged to me, next day I just wouldn't know; One day all the rules will bend, and you and I will meet again".  And on and on,

    I agree, yes, very good lyrics.I prefer the slow version of Kings Highway but even if there was only the fast version that's still some good lines!

     Again, to me, simple rock music is a compliment.

    Enjoying a Metallica song is fun too, there's plenty of room for wild histronic soloing and multiple guitar parts, complex lyrics, simple lyrics, three chord songs...it all comes down to taste but certainly discussing each one's take on the music can be interesting, even when there's disagreement.

    But I think we're more on the same page than not on this one when it comes to TPATH. 

    cheers

  15. Posted · Report reply

    16 hours ago, Zargo said:

    I like it, but I prefer "Think about me" which uses the "You Wreck me" riff first...

    Interesting comparison.

    I don't know, I guess it kinda sounds like the same three chords underneath maybe but the rhythm is different. I like Think About Me quite a bit though. I suppose putting the songs next to one another Think sounds a bit busier and more involved whereas YWM sounds more stripped back and is a pounding driving song, where as the Let Me Up track has more of that "chamber music" feel as Benmont called it of the different instruments all doing something different while complimenting the main riff.

     Perhaps too this ties into Drew's take on the depth he finds in the Let Me Up songs when he listens to it.

    Is it those  chords that make them sound similar to you? They almost sound a bit buried in the Let Me Up track compared to YWM. Oh wait, maybe you mean the part around "You better believe..." that sounds more similar to You Wreck Me?

    cheers

  16. Posted · Report reply

    8 hours ago, Shelter said:

    With regards to citisism about Wildflowers expressed here, I don't agree, certainly. I still think the various attempts being made, in connection to said critisism, to tie it to the musical development of TPATH, the drum sound, the techincal aspects, production aspects and what not, as well as the preceived sudden change in TP as a songwriter, is very well found and interesting things to discuss, nevertheless. I don't see it as single minded whining about how bad Wildflowers is for the most parts. I see the wider implications and levels of listening and understanding and even when I don't agree at all about what any of it means to me, it tells me something about the the over all TPATH story, that I find very fascinating. Not that anyone here need my defence, but just for the record. 

    Nicely said and I agree. And while not needed, the defense is appreciated.

    cheers

  21. Posted · Report reply

    5 hours ago, TheSameOldDrew said:

    As a studio track, I consider "You Wreck Me" one of Petty's (or Petty/Campbell's) lesser songs.

    It initially stood out to me after the disappointing run of songs on Wildflowers as something exciting! A faster beat, a rockin' riff, all right! Since then, I've liked it, gotten sick of it and liked it once more depending on mood but I think the bridge and outro chords are something special. I've more to say on this later...

    cheers

  22. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, Big Blue Sky said:

    ...statistics & hard cold facts are so annoying like that.  

    The first thing you learn about statistics is how malleable they are. Wasn't a certain casino owner's presidential victory statistically doubtful?

    That's not even getting to the word 'varied' and how they're using it.

    But ignoring that, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were far from adventurous on stage. This is a band that stopped playing Fault Lines after one attempt, All Or Nothin' after four and Rhino Skin after ten. A band with rare exception ended nearly every set with the Refugee/Running combo and later the ISHKI/Ref/Run combo. A band where Tom promised to dig deep before tours and not deliver. If you're going to look at the their three night final stand at the Hollywood Bowl and call that varied, then fine, have at it. If you're going to call a band's sets varied when you could predict when Learning To Fly or YDKHIF popped up, well again, that's up to you. 

    I wouldn't. I don't.

    What interests me though, is why some fans have a problem with this criticism. First, it's a minority opinion, most people who went to the shows were happy to hear the largely same songs from tour to tour. Same with most people here, the joy of seeing Tom and the boys enough for them, that they could see the same show on multiple nights and still enjoy it.

    And that's fine, the criticism of the set list isn't a criticism of those who enjoy it or just accept it.

    It's a simple observation that relative to the number of good songs they wrote, they barely touched what they could've played. A legitimate if moot critique during tours and one that is even more pointless since the band is gone.

    But the real question to ask, is why does the set list critique seem to ruffle feathers? Why would anyone possibly care if me or anyone else critiques it. Sure, if one wanted to have a discussion about it, and say why they enjoy largely hearing the same songs on consecutive nights on a tour, or from tour to tour, that's fine, discussion is what this place is all about.

    If that's the intent, it hasn't come across to me; it feels more like...stop grousing! Which is a valid perspective to have, but last I checked, no one's forcing anyone to read the same ole regurgitated set list discussions. 

    Regardless of what I think of their classification, I'm glad you sent that link. But I think a certain segment of Foo fighters fans and TPATH fans, maybe not the majority, but some, would definitely have a good belly laugh over them being classified as "varied."

    cheers

    Big Blue Sky reacted to this

  24. Posted · Report reply

    12 hours ago, Big Blue Sky said:

    For those of you who are fascinated by set-lists.

    I would shift Foo Fighters and TPATH into the "limited variety" though.

    This from the site is funny:

    [Incidentally it appears it’s very rare for bands to reverse their setlists — the only incident we could find was this anecdotal setlist from the Pixies which was apparently a reverse of the previous night's set, with the band walking off after the encore (the first song).]

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