MaryJanes2ndLastDance

Congratulations man! 20 years is impressive. Here's to both of you! (toasting with dark coffee not Maxwell House)

https://www.50thirdand3rd.com/tom-petty-classic-music-review-full-moon-fever/

https://www.50thirdand3rd.com/classic-music-review-long-dark-tom-petty-heartbreakers/

Good catch. Regarding TPATH, both times it surprised me with Free Fallin and American Girl. The guy who plays Melfi's psychiatrist is Bogdonovich (sp?) who directed the TPATH documentary. ciao

I didn't know that, thanks for the info. Between Two Worlds is a good album title but Long After Dark is a bit more evocative, I'm glad they went with that but Between would've been good too. I think it could've worked as the last song on the album or even right before A Wasted Life. Perhaps I'm in the minority on my take on that song. cheers

It's all right, I heard the teacher grades on a curve. Interesting. I suppose this is how you felt reading my overall impression of LAD and its positive emotional impact. For me, COH is one of the brightest songs musically, I never once got a sense of menace from it, though that could be more lyrics than music. I wonder if anyone else feels as you do about this song or album here at the 'Farm. I like that. It's a definite top five TPATH album for me, up there with FMF, HE and DTT, I guess it's top four, ah at last, a return to ranking. In some ways it's a more diverse version of DTT despite however Tom, per interviews, viewed it. And could very well be #3 for me depending on mood. That Mike played a bit of Between Two Worlds in one of his bathroom jams just seems evidence of its quality relative to their other records. Who'd think that song would suddenly appear even in an off-the-cuff truncated version. And while You Got Lucky was the big hit, Straight into Darkness was performed quite a bit considering how often deep cuts, non-singles would be neglected. On a slight tangent I sometimes think of A Woman in Love/Straight into Darkness and Criminal Kind/Same Old You as almost mirrors of each other, or at least another interesting angle on roughly the same topic. Finding Out is a triumphant rock song and one of their finest, sure, and like you said, Straight into Darkness could very well be its open-ended counterpart. Sounds good to me. cheers

To clarify, I thought you were referencing The Princess Bride hence my "ten fingers" comment. cheers

I figure I could keep to generalities but I already have and what's the point of that, or turn this into a homework assignment and that's no fun, so I'll split the difference here. Though maybe it'll seem like homework to those sufferi...uhh...reading through it. Threaded throughout Change of Heart is loss, even heartbreak and true, the change of heart could refer to the woman whose emotions have irrevocably shifted towards Tom. In which case, the title and song's focus is loss, hearbreak and his eventual acceptance of those feelings. Pretty grim, right? Part of life sure but not its most pleasant part. Yet, couldn't the title also refer to his own awakening? The revelation that she was using him, is followed by key lines: I'll get over you It won't take long Sure it may be wishful thinking about getting over her let alone the time frame for doing so, but even if it's braggadacio in the face of despair, that alone is optimistic to me, in that it points to improvement in the long term. Looks like we finally found the turning point Oh me, oh my Looks like it's time for me to kiss it goodbye Yeah kiss it goodbye If this isn't sarcastic, then it is a bitter realization perhaps but again, pointing towards eventual growth. Now maybe to you that doesn't seem positive or it's someone dusting themsleves off after their home has collapsed around them, thinking, well...not so bad as they stand in the wreckage of everything they own. But the song isn't just the lyrics alone but the music. And Change of Heart is pop-rock perfection. The guitars crunch and chime, there's bounciness to the rhythm and true, one could think it's sugar around the bitter pill but to me the instruments are generating the lighter postiive feeling connected to key lyrics, generating my take on them above. Now mixing upbeat, happy sounding music with grim lyrics is someting songwriters have done before, but I don't get that feeling at all here. However, I also think it shows how good this album is and this song in particular, that the title could both refer to the failure or ending of love but it could at the same time refer to his change of heart, his acceptance, that moment of revelation or a moment of clarity from which nothing is the same, seems like the whole song is building towards that, she was once the sun and now is a weapon. And wouldn't that be a worthwhile artistic goal, huh? Where different people can hear the same song and feel differently... I like how you worded this and there's no denying the grim landscape traversed, I just think even when they do so, some better land is in sight and in some songs, actually reached, or at least they have achieved enough of a personal epiphany to keep moving out of whaever "dead zone" they existed in. I do however, put more weight on single lines within context of songs as see below: There's no denying the darkness of Straight into well...Darkness. Yes. But look at that line..."the strong carry on" and their placement in the music, at the tail end of the quiet part leading into the chorus. Now granted the chorus is grim but the music in that moment is cathartic and to me again, even if the narrator or character in the song, I'll just say Tom for simplicity's sake isn't one of the strong and is just lamenting where he's at, that this isn't meant as a moment of realization...again I feel even realizing that some do carry on despite their despair, even if he isn't one of them, is optimistic, it's struggling to stay afloat while drwoning, it's not surrendeirng even in fht face of hoepleslness. I realize this sounds like a huge stretch, taffy pulled and extended till it's just a thin line but I still think it's a valid interpretation of the song. It's easy to ignore or underrate compared to the rest of the song's lyrics but it's placed at a moment of prominence, of focus in the song. Years from now Tom would be more direct, see I Won't Back Down (and hesitant to do so per interviews) but perhaps here he was if not hiding optimisim amongst the dark still not making it completley obvious either. But it's there nonetheless, to me anyway. Now before everyone passes out and drools across their electronic device from this seemingly endless explanation, I'll tsep back from specific songs and look at the album whole. Deliver Me and Change of Heart lead into the conclusion of Side A, a definite focal point since this is pre-Cd and so as I quoted Finding Out earlier, I think both lyrics and music point towards some wisdom gained, the pain isn't romantic part as well as the "took a little time" and pulled from the river of loneliness moments while the energy of the song matches the determination in lyrics and the vocals. It closes out Sida A on one heck of an UP note. What about Between Two Worlds and there's Same Old You and Straight into Darkness on Side B? If Finding Out is this big revelation, why then is it placed where it was and not at the end of the album? Aren't these songs refuting anything learned? Could be. Sure. It could be too that the ordering of the album was based on what musically worked together, I don't know. And the idea of a hidden concept album could be bollocks! These are songs dealing with both sides of love and heartache, there's no narrative hiding here, no theme beyond what each listener brings to it. Could be that too. But still, I get an optimistic feeling from the album, I'm not ignoring the darker side as well; that's what these songs are, or deal with in one way or another, and if not darkness with Between Two Worlds, certainly confusion, certainly the point between disappointment and acceptance you mention, heck, this song is literally about that midpoint. I'd go even further and say that One Story Town doesn't sound like a fun place to be either though the music is and You Got Lucky is a a bit of a nasty song lyriwise, a narcissist's ballad. So ther's plenty of darkness besides Darkness as you might word, that's my Shelter impression for you. Please donate tomatoes instead of throwing them at me. So how does the whole ablum end? Wistful musically but man, what a sweet sentiment and like i said before, quite the distance from You Got Lucky. It's wisdom, optismism, hope...sweetness not couched within pop-rock or the frantic energy of Finding Out but in a peaceful calm way, as if whatever was learned throughout the record, both good and bad has finally setlled into some measure of peace. Even if it's just a random collection of songs dealing with love etc. I think the lyrics and music generate more of an Up feeling than a down one. I did a little diggig and found what I'd wrote about this record years back on here: This seems like a concept album in its own way, the record spending its time in reaction to hearbreak (no pun intended!). being braggadocious in its loss, dealing with it, being the one to let go, drowning in its wake, learning from it and transcending. All with short poppy, catchy rock songs while still perfecting their sound that dominates up until Full Moon Fever. I still think it's the same, a concept album in theme if not all out, Tom bouncing back and forth between wisdom and heartache, despair and hope. To me, the latter outshines the former. That's my take on it anyway. Before we're done I'll have to retitle every topic, won't I? cheers

Oh, something's not clear in our communication here. I can understand why you take what you do from the album, to me while the lyrics and music evoke positive feelings for me, I can see how you listen to the same album and emerge with a different experience. Again, I think there is a good mix of he upbeat and the downbeat on this record as well, and thought I got that across. Well, more later when I've the opportunity. cheers

I don't think it's wrong opinion; you just didn't care for it, which is your right. Sometimes music grows on me or it takes a little while to see what they were going for, other times I just don't like something even if I give it multiple listens. Discussing it can be interesting but just enjoy what you like, if LAD collects dust, that's fine too. Oh yeah, Straight Into Darkness is one of his best, musically and lyrically. I think I'll go and listen to the alternate take, especially if the bass is more prominent. cheers

Good point, I see it too, could've been intentional on the artist's part. cheers

Nice. I don't know if it has been done or not but there could be people on here with different takes on it. For me, HC is down towards the bottom of the TPATH pile, aside from Saving Grace, Turn This Car Around and Big Weekend the record just never connected with me. Though I like the cover quite a lot. cheers

This made me laugh. cheers

I don't care for No Reason but the other songs are good, I think Something Good Coming is one of Tom's best songs actually. I understand. For me, it's a floating kind of groovy song; I enjoy the way it repeats itself while Mike solos, feels like you're settling in for a long journey but I could see why if it's not connecting with you and the riff to your ears is awful then it's just a dirge. cheers

Jolly pop! Ha ha ha. I wouldn't go that far but the following can be read as overcoming, enduring long enough to overcome, learning from one's mistakes, the healing power of love, etc. Sure these sentiments can be overlooked or viewed as meant to be taken sarcastically but to me they were more about optimism, more of a positive energy especially when paired with some of the crunchy pop rock of the music. From Deliver Me: I was born with something down inside of me And it's carried me over, delivered me Yeah delivered me, I'm standing at your gate Just out of reach of the hands of fate Change of Heart: I'll get over you It won't take long/Whoa yeah, oh boy/Looks like we finally found the turning point/ Looks like it's time for me to kiss it goodbye Finding out: I don't think pain is so romantic/It took a little time for me to stand up and shout But honey I'm coming 'round, I'm finding out/I have to thank you baby-honey I must confess You have pulled me from this river of loneliness To me, the lines about the "strong carry on" is the "the optimistic core of Straight into Darkness." And here: Wasted Life: You gotta stand and fight So when you're lonely and you feel let down You can call me I'll come around And treat you nice Don't have a wasted life I love you too much - uh, uh, uh, don't have a wasted life ---A far cry from You Got Lucky. but like I said, there's mix of moods and feelings but overall, from the music and some of the lyrics I get more of an UP feeling than down; thoug not to the level of FMF but still pretty good considering this was following the introspective HP. My take on it anyway. cheers

Which ones are they?

Maybe yeah. I don't think I'd have liked it anymore but I'd respect going all in on a darker record. I like Rhino Skin a lot, same with Room At the Top. The outro solo of One more Day is pretty darn good.

Good point.

It has a bit of a twang to my ears but isn't what I'd first think of as country but if someone else called it that I wouldn't protest either. That is really interesting. To me, I feel this way with Saving Grace and Highway Companion but not with Jamming Me because I feel it's of a piece with the other rock numbers on there, Damage, How Many More, the title track and so on. In one of those links I reordered LMU to my taste since I felt like Runaway Trains and It'll All Work Out form the emotional heart of the record and should be in the middle; the transition from Jammin Me to RT is terrible. cheers

At least I have ten fingers. Well, I put it in quotes and didn't want to belabor it (unlike the set list issue) but was largely meant to reference Iovine's reported feeling of the song as being too country. That said: To me I can hear a faint bit of country in the tune, or call it countryish but I don't really care one way or the other; sure folk-rock is fine. The point is, it's a good song and I think the difference in style from the rest of the album could've had it work just fine with Long After Dark. Though wasn't Turning Point another contender? I think it's the better song of the two and would've worked even better than Keepin Me Alive though perhaps too similar in feeling to Finding Out. I agree. To clarify, I wasn't advocating ending the record with the song, only that I thought I heard somewhere that it could've been on the record and figured the end would be a good place. But now I will advocate that it could work just fine at the record's conclusion, though like I said above, doing so ends the record, in my opinion, on a more questioning moody feeling whereas Louisiana Rain feels more definite. Unlike LR that has a different musical feel, CD seems more in common with DTT. OK? ETA? SMH? Abbreviations work well with TPATH. Before continuing on, I went back and listened to Casa Dega, it had been a number of years and I gotta say, it's more uptempo than I recalled...! And what a chorus! I always liked the song from the first time I heard it but it's been a while. Though it's less mellow than I remembered, I think it could've been a good way to conclude the record. But LR was a good choice too and listening to it again just now, more uptempo than I recalled as well. cheers

That sounded really good! One short instagram clip, to me, settles the set list issue as well. Couldn't resist, could I? cheers

Ha ha ha, that's pretty good!

Maybe it wasn't something Tom could properly express and at this point, info and interviews are a jumble but I'm fairly sure he thought they were just staying in place with the album and/or it was something more tailored for the band, more of a rocking affair they wanted than the introspective, moodier HP. I don't know how it's reported he felt towards Iovine at that point but regarding LAD moving ahead...hmm. I never thought of LAD in those terms but I can see why you'd think that. Those elements of the record to me, are a bit outshone by the more energetic or optimistic takes, like Change of Heart, Finding Out, and the optimistic core of Straight into Darkness, though I guess that's a mix isn't it? And the thoughtful, wistful Wasted Life. But to me, that's a bit to the side from the question or understanding why Tom said what he did about LAD after HP; seems to me he undervalued what he and the band did with that record, as if writing a bunch of brighter (in sound not necessarily lyrics) songs was somehow less worthy than progressing into new territory whatever that would be, or stretching the limits of what his rock-n-roll band could do. Again, I don't think people view TPATH as an experimental band and rightly so, but they did progress, their sound mutating over the years as discussed earlier and in other topics. In the end, it's a good thing he had that drive to keep the band going, etc. But releasing an album of more or less uptempo songs, or ones with more energy, with the pop-jangel and crunchy chords of Change of Heart, well...I think it's good regardless of whether or not they had progressed in Tom's mind. So while I think your points are valid as to show them still moving forward with LAD from HP despite Tom's comments, I could see why he made them, as perhaps he viewed it as just another album of largely short punchy and jangly rock songs...been there, done that. Thinking a bit more on this and your points, "...darker, nocturnal, claustrophobic and slightly urban..." and the songs where those feelings are most prominent, does make it seem that perhaps Tom underestimated this album on two fronts, that there's nothing wrong with another album of short, uptempo rock/pop/jangle songs especially when there this good and fit together so well and that as you note, the songs and album overall have more of a mixing of shade than perhaps what one first takes away from it. And it's the mixing of the two, the harsh bite of You Got Lucky's lyrics, the "strong carry on" in Straight throughout that help make this such a good record for them and that it's all largely done within the pop-rock format. Ah, but you left off the key point: "then HE was a return to that style of album but with years of experience" I guess I didn't want to belabor it (unlike the set list issue) and since I go on about it on its own topic (link not included) but it's not so much as suddenly it's 1977 again for the band, but rather Tom steered this album towards making a rock-n-roll record in a way they hadn't done in years. Of course, after nearly forty years together it wasn't going to be DTTT (Damn The Torpedoes Two) or Longer After Dark (get your mind out of the gutter) but what the seasoned band would come up with having that as some overall goal, see below: True enough and I attribute that to songs that survived the initial culling when Tom/the band decided songs were too Mojo like. I don't think it's a bad thing though as tempo, energy and brevity rework the blues or "blues" style of Mojo into something different. The three songs leaning most towards Mojo to my ears are Burnt out Town, Power Drunk and Shadow People, but PD, like I said has more energy, brevity and that contrasting part in the middle and outro that to me, differentiate it from the Mojo tracks in feel. Shadow People one could claim, has a lot in common with maybe Good Enough or First Flash in terms of length and style but again, the simple marching riff of SP again, makes it feel of a different space than Good Enough. Esoteric enough? I should add that aside from Burnt Out Town the songs I mention have some lingering feelings or atmosphere associated with Mojo but go in more interesting and different directions and at least Town has a rollicking beat to it, keeping it more in sync with HE than their previous record. Is it staying in place? I think it's more the lingering energy or perhaps what the most gravitated to at that point in their career, midtempo bluesy numbers and that Tom's desire to make a rock album had them cut the songs that were more in line with Mojo, while others, like the one mentioned above survived because while they had blues-elements, were still more in line with HE and it's rock-n-roll feeling. For me it was less them duplicating or even attempting to duplicate the 70s and 80s but more what they could do in 2013 (?) as a band in terms of making a more rockin' album, perhaps much how they tried this with Come On Down To My House, not as competition with Nirvana but just feeling the urge to do something with more of an edge and a faster tempo than they had in a while. Except decades later they went all in as it were with an album instead of a song, but one that stretched them still. As to your points about Ben and harmony vocals, I don't know, sure the former is there but not prominent but I don't think that's a bad thing for one album out of their whole career; he was always about being in the right place amongst the guitars. Next listen I give the record I'll see if I can pick up more of what he's doing (or not doing). I think Two Gunslingers pointed to the lack of Ben as one of his disappointments with the record. cheers

If this keeps going I'll just retitle the thread to cover a wider amount of topics; at this point I feel discussion can continue as it has in here instead of starting a new post. cheers