MaryJanes2ndLastDance
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Posts posted by MaryJanes2ndLastDance
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Ha ha ha, I don't think of it as derailed, just went down a different track. Sure, "technical aspects" and "debatable layers of objective..." can be interesting but there remains that vital, ineffable quality that is beyond analysis.
Back to the album, for me, it sets a template for most TPATH albums, the good mixed with the bad, which makes the albums that are consistently good feel even better in comparison. I think it's interesting they ended the record with American Girl instead of beginning with it. I wonder if any of them or the producers had an inkling it would become as huge and if so, would they have begun the record with it.
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^ Quite right. I'm not here to convert you. Just answered your question really, trying to specify my view. Then a bit further yet, since you started talking of versions, reproducing the studio version and so on, which was largely beside my point.
Well, that's because your point wasn't quite clear to me.
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That's a shame about the beetroot.
Regarding a tour and potential tickets; I can't say about Mudcrutch, since they play smaller venues but it should be and most likely is possible that aside from residencies, good TPATH tickets can be found the day of the show at the box office. I've been lucky to have gotten great tickets for Pearl Jam and other bands the day of.
Having not been a member of the Heartbreakers Fan Club or Highway Group or whatever it's called, I don't know if there's other benefits worth the cost but if one just wants to go to the show, I recommend day of tix. I know that may be contrary to what people are used to, but it beats going through the frustration of Ticketmaster and ending up with seats far from the stage. Of course, sometimes one can be lucky with that system.
And I understand about wanting to have tickets in hand when traveling to a show.
But if it's your hometown, don't feel the blues, just go the day of and you should be able to get good seats.
DISCLAIMER: IF YOU HOLD OFF FOR DAY OF SHOW TICKETS BE WARNED THAT IT COULD BE A FLUKE AND YOU MAY NOT GET TICKETS. I CAN'T 100% GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET TICKETS ON THE DAY OF THE SHOW AT THE BOX OFFICE.
If I've missed the point completely about this topic, it must be from the shock of learning about Shelter's beetroot situation, in which case, kindly ignore this post if you haven't already.
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.Or like this: if a mega hit deeply associated with TP perhaps gets "tied" to this context/existence inescapably - and both American Girl and I Won't Back Down would be so in this case, I don't refute this - I still think there are something, not sure what, that makes the latter a grand TP classic and the former more of a universally eternal song.
This right here is what I was referring to. Up until this point, conversations about music are good, but they usually reach that moment where all discussions ceases or becomes confused or ends with some variation of "because I like it" and really, there's nothing wrong with that, in fact, it's probably for the best, that some part of music discussions remain inexplicable. Another way of saying it, is it comes down to taste. It all leads to the same place.
For me, those songs are as classic and as timeless as American Girl, I mean, I can lead up to it as best I can, and make arguments about it but in the end...it's just something you feel.
But before that point is reached, the conversations are usually interesting and they can continue to be after that point, heck, without them this place could just be a bunch of lists of favorite and least favorite songs and quite dull.
It Ain't Nothin' To Me, sure, here's things I enjoy about the song but these are explanations after the fact, I like the song.
Regarding American Girl, Won't Back Down, Free Fallin and timelessness, we disagree but the conversation is interesting.
I certainly didn't think this topic would lead down this path but again, that's what a forum like this is for, not just for the expression of opinions and sharing of musical moments, but for the unexpected digressions arising between.
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It never officially made it on a Heartbreakers record, but here's my theory: "Black Leather Woman" morphed into (or at least was the starting point for) "Jefferson Jericho Blues." Structurally, they're very similar. The riffs even sound similar. Maybe Tom thought BLW's lyrics were too simplistic and did a little rewriting to make it "album-worthy." So in a sense BLW did make it onto a Heartbreakers album, even though I always thought BLW was better than JJB.
Nice observation. I can hear a similarity...I also think Black Leather Woman is the better song. Maybe it influenced JJB without them being aware of it. I think Black Leather Woman could've worked on Mojo, especially as the lead track.
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I could be wrong but I don't think they ever played it in concert. That's the only live version I've found so far. Finding Out is one of the best rock songs they wrote. I was surprised when I learned they never played it on a tour. Same with You and I Will Meet Again.
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I think some of the sparse playing in the live version of Too Good To Be True, reminds me of the sparse interlude moment in Runaway Trains.
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martin03345,
While I thus far disagree with most nearly everything you've written about this record, aside from your estimation to one degree or another of the first four tracks, I did enjoy reading your take so far.
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perfectly great songs like I Won't Back Down and Free Fallin' are slightly more stuck in their respective recording, as it were, a tad more "dated" and thus a also come across a tad more like TP playing TP covers. Still good songs, of course. And that may also be a radical stand.. and certainly just me.. but.. hey.. I rest my case, please "make-it-last-all-night!!"
I see what you're saying about American Girl. Regarding your two examples, I think Won't Back Down has enjoyed life in both its rocking version and the acoustic take. I'm sure Free Fallin' could as well but, much like American Girl, it's something they mainly want to reproduce as close to the album as possible. Regardless, I think both are as classic as American Girl. Considering how many times they've played them, I still think they do a good job with 'em; though I'm sure the audience energy really buoys those numbers.
They played an acoustic American Girl during the Into The Great Wide Open tour. One of the last few tours where that song didn't end the show.
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Well, then I like Randall Marsh's drumming on that one
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A tour is a good estimate. Mudcrutch? Heartbreakers 40th?
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It's obvious that a song like American Girl have stood the test of time very well, but the point here is that I don't think the current live version is great in the same ways or for the same reasons exactly, as is the original recording. In some ways it's not even the same song.
This could be the most radical opinion I've read on here. Even more than my enjoyment of It Ain't Nothin' To Me...!
I'm not even sure I'm grasping your point, unless you just mean the record version is a perfect expression of the feeling of the band at that moment in time, that no live version can necessarily reproduce, especially so far down the road. That was the burst of pure energy and the live versions are just fun takes on the song. Something like that?
I enjoy both versions.
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I could add, that to me - and I might have said this before somewhere - Something Big seems like some sort of poor man's Hotel California.
Motel California.
I prefer Something Big to anything in the Eagles oeuvre but that's because I dislike the eagles. Awful band.
Still, Something Big remains something small in the greater TPATH area.
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I really liked that song, from the moment they debuted it on the Jay Leno show. I thought it was so cool that they were the musical guest that night to play a brand new song nobody had ever heard without a forthcoming album in sight. Just a random, agenda-less appearance.
That is pretty good!
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Oh, I can see a lot's been going on since I've been away color coding my TP records..
I keep mine organized by Flag Semaphore.
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Yeah.. I'm not up for a tirade here and now, but most of that is crazy talk to my ears. Hard Promises to me, is one of those albums that define TP&TH. Chilling core stuff. Excellent songwriting all over. If anything, Nightwatchman - a song that most fans seem to like a lot - is what stands out as a bit "weak" to me, in terms of songwriting, but it still fits the vibe of the album well enough and does have a great groove, so.. I have no complaints. II
Is it me or am I sensing some restraint
in defending one of your favorites if not your favorite. Not that a defense is needed of course, there's no attack, only opinion.cheers
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Glad you liked that.
One of those mysteries as to why it didn't get performed, but this clip is better than nothing!
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But I'm even more fond of these records when keeping in mind that TP&TH were youngsters, comparatively, when they were written and recorded, and when keeping in mind how other music sounded like around the same time. It's simply great stuff out of time and of it's time.
Good point and good for them that they were supported for a while (bad deal and all) and given a chance to grow beyond this enthusiastic debut.
Still, for me, most of TPATH albums distill down into a really good e.p., in this case, the first two albums combine into one solid one. Fortunately for every bland Hometown Blues, there's a Luna or Too Much Ain't Enough.
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In the end, it all comes down to liking what you like, which is a truism. Chord choices, vocal melodies, it either works or it doesn't. One can expound on their opinions and while interesting to read, usually won't change anyone's mind, though sometimes...it can shed new light on an old song or album.
Pushing their songwriting into new territory was a good idea, I just didn't care for most of the execution.
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For me, Melinda and Two Men are just as much legitimate songs as Walls, sometimes Tom does a lot with very simple musical arrangements. But I certainly understand why others just take them as excuses to solo. For me, they're both!
I hope Ron continues to get a spotlight in future shows.
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Yes, I enjoy Dog on the Run too (I think I've only heard the RockPalast and the early live lp versions) but prefer Melinda and Two Men Talking as songs. I agree, it's a shame about Ron but at the same time I've a feeling if he wanted to take another bass solo or do it regularly the band would be all right with it; maybe he's fine doing his part with Steve.
Picture Ron and Steve gettin' down! Some good drums and bass action while the band keeps the rhythm. Be it with Dog on the Run, Two Men Talking or any song they jam on.
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Listening to a lot of their earlier material shows how much they've evolved.
If you came to the band later, what do you think of their early records? The Stan years? And vice versa.
There's a huge dividing line between Wildflowers and Let Me Up. I'd classify Full Moon Fever and Into the Great Wide Open as the transitional records between the two, though I'd be fine if one put the line between Let Me Up an Full Moon Fever.
Hypnotic Eye is its own, it sounds like modern TPATH's attempt to do an album like Damn the Torpedoes but with all their experience playing behind it. I know that's not what they did, nor was their goal necessarily but it's modern TPATH rocking out and more consistently in a long time.
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Random Thoughts Thread
in Depot Street
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Sorry to hear that asakitten. Hope it improves...