MaryJanes2ndLastDance

I think there was a big shift in the live sound from Stan to Steve in 95. Besides Steve's playing (which I also enjoy), the guitar sounds on that tour were really good and already there was a heaviness that wasn't there as much in the 91 tour. I'm sure some of this was also due to Tom's new songwriting style. I really like it quite a bit. 91 seemed the farewell tour for the "jangle." Not that it isn't still there in some songs, but just in the overall feel, they're heavier. Like the show from the Vic, Two Men Talking is heavy, thick, jam. And it's great. I haven't listened to much of any live recordings from the Hypnotic Eye tour and only one from Mojo but the "heaviness, groove, the increasing bass and drum drive" all sound good to me.

That's a good point and if someone were to write their thoughts on it, I'm sure it would be an interesting read, exploring how what was left off helped shape the finished record. The albums do tell a tale of the band's change over time, since these were, for better or worse, per an Iovine or a Lynne or Tom and Mike, the songs chosen to be released. This is the statement they're making at that point in time. cheers

That's a shame if that's how it was for Stan. And for Steve, yeah, I remember reading something like that about his drumming and how impressed they were with his abilities. I think it would be fun if they gave some of a song over to Steve and Ron to solo together through, like Ron on Two Men Talking from back in 2010?

Perhaps it was quite liberating for him to do whatever he wanted on this particular album with Mike and Jeff as the co-captains, navigators? and everyone else just doing their parts. Not having to consider the Heartbreakers really. The opposite of how they are from Mojo on; where it seems like they just get together and bash 'em out. Oh, wait a second, I think a lot of Echo was like that too, at least Swingin' was.

That would be really good! Heck, they had Phil Jones with them on one tour and a horn section. Why not double drummers? Even if it were for one show...! cheers

That would be pretty cool, if he came onstage and got to run through some classics with them and maybe even something unexpected like Psychotic Reaction and Drivin' Down to Georgia. More of a last hurrah than the rock hall induction. cheers

If that's how it went, I don't understand that approach at all. Sure use some studio trickery (versus, let's say, the Mojo approach) here and there but why neuter Stan this way? A drummer brings so much to a band; apparently Tom was enamored of Lynne and his results with FMF that he let him have too much say with ITGWO. I still like the finished album though. But I think it would be even better if Stan had been let loose on the tracks. cheers

I don't know. I think Stan could've handled Tom's songwriting shifts, I've no doubt he could not only play those types of songs but his creativity, while perhaps reigned in a bit, or tightly controlled, would result in some inspired creativity, coming out in little embellishments in each track, that people who listen closely would've been enjoying for years to come. Certainly he did a good job on Louisiana Rain, Built To Last, The Best of Everything, A Wasted Life, etc. I don't think Tom's written anything in 7/4. (Maybe he has?) My point is, Stan was skilled enough to play what Tom wrote and perhaps an enforced discipline on Wildlfowers, Echo etc. would've inspired him in other ways. Personality wise, fan of the songs, and such, well...that's a whole other story. One we may finally be privvy to when that new TPATH book comes out. cheers

That would be crazy. It's more like the weakest.

I wonder how most listeners feel about Insider? I understand all your poitns but never connected with the song, perhaps if it had been a short two-minutes (which would eliminate what you and others love) but I doubt even then. How Stevie and Tom's voices blend together is great but not enough for me to enjoy this track. I wonder if Insider would've been a bit radio hit. Now that I think about it, there's little (that we know of) recordings with their voices together. Perhaps they are due for another duet or maybe...it's not worth returning to the same well, so to speak. cheers

I agree, I just didn't like the results.

Nice!

Well said!

For me, the sound of Wildflowers is a good ideal for TPATH, (though that's based on memory, I may revise it when I get around to re-listening). so I was just comparing it to that standard. For FMF, whatever Lynne did, to quote you quoting Shelter, "perfect demos" or whatever, works perfectly for this album. I prefer the drums on FMF to ITGWO; COMPLETE WILD & UNFOUNDED SPECULATION: perhaps Lynne was reacting to Stan, or Stan to Lynne, in which Lynne neutered the drums to a degree as a reaction. Audio payback as it were. FMF sounds better than ITGWO to me. But that's all I meant. I love the sound of FMF, I love the whole album (if you hadn't noticed ). cheers

I like your breakdown (no pun intended) with the producers. I think it's a good way of viewing the band through the years and the changes they've gone through, nicely detailed and interesting to read, too. This is the sort of thing I was hoping would be part of the discussion on their sound evolving. Is there an era, per your take that you favor? My focus was on the shift in Tom's songwriting and singing style; going from something ike She's the One to Damn the Torepdoes or You're Going To Get It can be "surprising". Or maybe jumping from Wildflowers to Damn the Torpedoes. They almost sound and seem like different bands. Which, overall I think, is a good thing, it shows growth and no Damn the Torpedoes sequels. I wonder if others hear the same? With this in mind, the biggest line of demarcation for me is between Wildflowers and Let Me Up. For most of the mid 90s and all of the 2000s, while electric guitars were still prominent, the acoustic really came forward, as well as a songwriting approach favoring the midtempo groove. Rhino Skin, Room at the Top, Running Man's Bible, Honey Bee, Climb that Hill and so on. It's a really good spot for the band, they're quite comfortable with it, quite good at it and have recorded some really good songs in that style. Which is why Hypnotic Eye is such a blast of fresh air! It rocks in a way they haven't in years. I don't think of it as Damn the Torpedoes 2 though. Torpedoes was a still relatively new band playin' rock-n-roll, Hypnotic Eye is a veteran band playin' rock-n-roll! cheers

Bump.

I finally got around to listening to a Mojo concert, the one from Colorado. I need to preface that I still haven’t made it all the way through the album so I’ve now heard these songs more live than from the studio. What I have heard of Mojo has been a bit surprising as well but that’s for another time. Let’s start with the bad and then go to the good. THE BAD: Aside from the Mojo tracks, and Driving Down to Georgia, pretty much the same type set list. Mystic Eyes. Why couldn't they have brought back Dog on the Run instead? Or even better...It Ain't Nothin' To Me! I’ve saved the worst for last. There’s a point where Tom basically pleads with the audience to accept the new music and that they’ll play a whole slew of hits after. Crazy! "...We're going to play a little bit now, and I hope you like it 'cause I want you to hear us play some new stuff, too. So we're going to play a few of those and then before you go home, we're going to play wall to wall hits for you." Maybe I'm being a bit hard on Tom but I think there’s no need to pander, hat in hand to the audience. Just play the songs! I feel an audience won’t respect a band that does this sort of thing. And let’s face it, while there may be some people swayed by Tom’s words, others still won’t care and will make for the beer/bathrooms and check their phones. THE GOOD: The performances. Now, TPATH are a pretty consistent band live, out of all the bootlegs I’ve heard and official live albums, I can’t really think of times where they were off, or the playing was subpar or uninspired. Considering how many times they’ve played Refugee…that’s impressive. I think the recording of Mojo definitely helped bring more of a heaviness to their approach, a point I think Shelter mentioned here and there. Well, it’s true, and it’s good. The sounds of the guitar are thick and heavy. Drivin’ Down to Georgia. Along with Melinda, my favorite of their unreleased songs that seem to only exist in concert…and I’m fine with that! A great descending riff, fun bridge, some inspired Benmont soloing and even some good Mike (or Tom?) soloing on the outro. A great fast song! Glad they pulled it out on this tour. Running Man’s Bible…a fun jammed out song, nice playing on the outro. I’m glad they extended this one. I Should Have Known It…some realy good playing. Too bad they don’t extend the double-time part, it feels like it should go on with another three minutes of shredding. Surprisingly, the outro to You Don’t Know How It Feels. Far from one of my favorite songs but I’m at a point where listening to something different (for me anyway, I know they play this one a lot) is refreshing, so I quite enjoyed the musicianship during the outro. A nice long You Wreck Me. Since they’re going to keep playing it (and I like it, just been overplayed since 95) I’m glad they stretch it out, they may as well go nuts and do a reggae jam on it, some calypso drumming and such. Anyway, this is a really good version! Mary Jane’s Last Dance…while not the awesome long versions from 95 or 02/03, it’s still stretched out a bit more with some inspired soloing. The other Mojo tracks they played…they sound very fresh and it’s a shame so few were played but that’s a standard complaint I guess and this is the positive side, so…it was fun to hear the band play some bluesy music with more soloing. Other than that, it’s a somewhat standard TPATH show. A good level of musicianship, too many typical songs, and some inspired jamming. I’ll stop here before going on a set list rant. What did some of you other Mudcrutch forum members think of the Mojo tour? cheers

Has anyone actually heard the score? Aside from watching the movie? Or is the score referring to "Airport"?

Full Moon Fever is the best Tom Petty album. Since I don’t really divide his solo works from those with the Heartbreakers, I think it tops all of them, though Hypnotic Eye comes close. Absolutely everything Tom, Mike, Jeff and the others who worked on this did was the right thing. Someone mentioned in the Let Me Up thread how far Tom progressed in just a couple years, and it’s both true and amazing. And while I like that record, it sounds disjointed. Full Moon Fever flows. I could just stop right there. Full Moon Fever flows, one song perfectly leading into the next. I don’t want to spend a lot of time on the three common side topics associated with this record, so I’ll address them now: 1) The shift in songwriting styles and Tom’s voice. Aside from Jeff’s influence, and a bit more acoustic guitar, I don’t find that much of a difference between this and the earlier material, except in song quality. I’m not saying there wasn’t a shift, just that I feel the larger one came with Wildflowers. It definitely sounds like a different version of Tom; whatever he’s doing with his voice here, the lower timbre is quite good. It’s sometimes a bit jarring to go from this, to the debut record and hear how different he sounds. I prefer this version of his voice and feel it has aged quite nicely. 2) And for the effect on the band, well…that doesn’t diminish my enjoyment of the album either and has been discussed in multiple threads. I can sympathize with them feeling cut adrift or concerned that it was the end of the band, but regardless of the long term effects, it’s a hopeful, energetic album and what was most needed for the long term growth of the band, or at least Tom. 3) The last factor is the prevalence of hits on this album, mainly overplayed songs both on radio and in concert. I understand why that could lessen one’s enjoyment of this record, or perhaps tarnish it a bit. In that case, consider this post a good varnishing. 1) Free Fallin’——Ironically, the album starts with the weakest song. Hold on, didn’t I just get done saying that this record is perfect and flows and blah-de-blah-de-blah? Yes. I did. And it is. And it does. Then how can there be a weak track. Simple, I don’t like every track equally. If someone were to ask me to list these songs from least favorite to favorite, then Free Fallin’ would probably come in 11th or 12th. It didn’t connect with me for a long time but it still is a good song, with some really good lyrics, like “All the vampires walkin' through the valley, move west down Ventura Blvd” as one of my favorites. Musically it’s simple and that simplicity makes it powerful. There’s no fat on the song. And how about those drum rolls Phil Jones throws in towards the end! It’s a song about heartache and regret, themes Tom has sung about before but for this album, well…they're more of a jumping off point. On this record we start with the heartache and move onto better times. 2) I Won’t Back Down——A great anthem. It’s simple and powerful with good musicianship all the way through, with a potent get pumped chorus that works in different ways in the live setting. Per the Conversations With…book, he thought this was too obvious, too spot-on a sentiment but it works because it’s so “on the nose”. The very simplicity and openness of the song are its greatest virtues; besides the good music of course. That constant steady rhythm, that almost sounds like scratching fits the song perfectly, building up to that explosively powerful chorus. Interesting too, the way Tom brings the chorus down with his voice at the end, leading into the next verse. It's so subtle, and so taken for granted, I just noticed it now. And how fitting, that a song about not backing down doesn’t have to hide behind elaborate metaphor or cloak its sentiment! A rocking chorus audiences have sung along to for over two decades and it’s only the second friggin’ track. Fabulous slide during the solo, too! 3) Love is a Long Road—After the ballad beginning and the power of I Won’t Back Down, Love is a long road starts with a slow build-up of a chiming guitar, increasing the tension moment by moment till the rest of the instruments thunder in. It’s a good variation from the first two songs. Unlike some of Tom’s mediocre filler rock songs (here’s some chords and a beat) this tune takes its time before revving up. When it cycles back to the opening again and the band returns it sounds twice as powerful as before. There’s some really good playing going on in counterpoint. As a song about the gritty underside of love, the work involved, it sure does rock. Yes, it’s a well worn topic for Tom but this is a very good take on the theme. Some have called this the closest to the original Heartbreaker sound on this album, and I think that’s valid. 4) A Face in the Crowd—-While I liked this song, especially the way it leads to the incredible Running Down A Dream, it has probably gone way up in my estimation over the years. Musically it’s good, benefiting from a nice sparse sound. This song feels like tumbleweeds from a western blowing. The lyrics are so sparse one could slot any particular people to them. While I take the song as sad one, it could just be the wistful thoughts of someone pondering the time they didn’t know someone special. Wistful thinking or song of regret, it works either way, carried along by some gentle, inspired playing by Mike, it’s heartbreaking, no pun intended. 5) Runnin’ Down A Dream—Still my favorite Tom Petty song. While it has been overplayed in concert and on radio, while I’ve overplayed it and grown tired of it, then discovered it again over and gone through the whole thing many times over, it remains just the best song he’s written. That riff. Simple. Powerful. It captures the sense of urgency, no…it is urgency, the drums driving forward in step with a great riff. With simple lines, Tom paints a compelling picture. “Me and Del were singin’ Little Runaway”. Even if you don’t know who he’s talking about, it just sounds right. That’s what people do, they sing in a car together, it’s fun, it’s pure summer bliss. Me and Del…it works better than Del and me, the way the syllables roll out. “…no sunshine…” It’s the perfect ending to the second verse, that in the middle of this great rock song comes a bit of melancholy. Which of course, makes the third and final verse so powerful. Who hasn’t felt chills when you hear Tom sing “There’s something good waitin’ down this road, I’m pickin’ up, whatever is mine…” The acoustic strumming is the perfect compliment to the electric guitar during the chorus. "Workin' on a mystery..." the perfect romantic line; not taking it as if dealing with love, but with the excitement of the unknown, an adventure! That solo is my favorite that Mike’s ever played. He’s played tastefully, he’s come in between verses with the perfect quick lead, his guitar has wailed, played the blues, picked powerful notes sliding up and down the neck but this solo has so much character to it from how it starts, to the middle and the ending, the notes he picks, the way it moves up the neck and with intensity...it’s telling a story, with a beginning, middle and soaring end. This is one of the best driving songs around. Throw it in on the open road and crank it up. —Tom’s interlude, is droll, the briefest of intermissions that while being funny, without being overly long, also sets up Side B perfectly. After that amazing opening quintuplet, it’s good to set the stage over again for the rest of the album. A bit of a palette cleanser. 06) Feel A Whole Lot Better—I don’t know about you, but I didn’t know this was a cover for years. I like it, a nice bit of jangly guitar pop, after that powerful Side A, it’s good to start Side B with something different, and this fits the bill. 07) Yer So Bad—That opening verse is quite funny. This song is another jaunty number. A favorite for the audience to sing along to. Is the song about the “bad” woman saving him for a change? Sounds like it, perhaps bad as passionate with a bit of eccentricity. But it doesn’t matter. It’s a fun song, pretty much what this album is about. The bridge is great, that grunt from Tom perfectly placed followed by a neat melodic solo. Tom dropping his vocals so the drums take the spotlight for a moment is a nice touch. The album is filled with them, little moments here and there adding texture. 08) Depending On You—There’s more sweetness in this song. There’s even a bit that sounds like it’s from a Wilburys song. I do like some of the lyrics and the general feel of the song. It’s easy for this song to be overlooked between Yer So Bad and the Apt. Song but it’s actually quite good. And that outro rocks! 09) The Apartment Song—one of my favorites from them. Depending on You leads perfectly into it, this one being a bit faster in tempo, making for a good transition, another example of a perfectly sequenced record. The music is catchy and uptempo, the drum breaks alone are great. Once again, Tom sings about having overcome something, which fits the overall theme of the album. It's a song that can inspire as well, if Tom escaped that apartment, you can as well, be it a job, a jerk, or whatever troubles you. 10) Alright For Now——Precursor to Angel Dream but so much better. Just a wonderful pause, a sweet lullabye. This could’ve ended the record. In some ways, perhaps it is and the last two songs are a bonus. A fun coda, if you will. I liked how they’d end concerts with it, a nice little have a good night song after a night of rock-n-roll. The sound of the guitar is wonderfully crisp and I love what Tom’s doing here with his voice. 11) A Mind With A Heart of Its Own—This sounds like the 70s version of the Heartbreakers but with a more refined yet rocking take. Unlike say, Hometown Blues, the song is more developed musically. The false ending is fun and would make for a great jam in concert. Definitely one that should be pulled out for a residency. Too bad a live version didn’t make the anthology. Some really fun lyrics, too, scattershot crazy verses for the fun of it. And why not? Tall grass and cattails becoming tall men and coat-tails is a fun play on words. The “Do-do-do’s” add a lot to the song as well... 12) Zombie Zoo—I’m surprised Tom nearly left this off. That organ intro is amazing! And the song is the perfect jaunty number to end this record, a representative mix of the different styles on here, playful, rocking, interesting lyrics (do they reflect back on Free Fallin'?) and a sense of fun. And while it starts great, it ends even better, with those three powerful chords. It’s closing the record with an exclamation point. As well it should. No fade out, gentle ending for Full Moon Fever. From here, Free Fallin’ starts again and one can enjoy the record once more. I understand why some people have problems with Jeff Lynne and miss the Heartbreakers on this. It is a big shift from that earlier sound, but still part of the progression of Tom’s songwriting. Having listened to this record so many times I ran it straight into the ground, through the mantle, past the core and out the other side, I can still return to it and enjoy its positive, upbeat energy. It’s a fun record and sometimes I think fun is underrated in music discussions. Putting on this album is going on a journey, from heartbreak and regret to realizing dreams. A quick word about the cover. It’s all right. I don’t think TPATH have much in the way of really good covers, fortunately the music more than makes up for it and most of the interior artwork is more interesting, perhaps an image from inside the booklet should’ve made the cover. This is a great collection of songs, and while some have been overplayed and exhausted they’re still great songs. While this album has some, well…one, maybe two truly melancholy songs, the rest of it has an upbeat energy. Is the sound more polished? Yes. But the songs are great, it feels like a breath of fresh air. Sure, I like Let Me Up but towards the end it felt like lingering at a party much too long, spent cigarettes floating in sytrofoam cups of beer, two slices of congealing pizza in the box, a television full of static and underneath the musty odor of spent lust with the beginnings of a hangover. There’s an exhaustion to it. Full Moon Fever is pulling the drapes wide open, bringing in the sunlight, cleaning the place before hopping in your car and driving far away, the wind through the open window cleansing the party’s residue. You’re racing towards a future full of possibility.

I think Walls is one of those songs I liked fairly quickly and just grew tired of, whereas other songs on here became more interesting with repeat listens. It's better than Asshole but still isn't as good as the other tracks, for me. cheers

Runaway Trains, Don't Fade On Me, Come On Down To My House, Makin' Some Noise, All or Nothin', Hurt, What Are You Doing in My Life?, Climb that Hill, A Mind With A Heart Of Its Own, 08 version of Saving Grace, When The Time Comes, Too Good To Be True, Rhino Skin. Pick your own 13 songs, any of these would be preferable to the covers on the Live Anthology. Hey, I understand people like the covers, but the number on the box set is a shame. cheers

Interesting. I never knew the story behind this, well, not that detailed anyway. She's The One is one of their best records. A bit of a forgotten one, as well. While I like Walls, it's one of the weaker tracks on there. It's also kind of a forgotten greatest hit; seems like it hasn't been performed in a long time. Never had an interest in the movie, not even out of curiosity to hear how the songs work in that context. Thanks for sharing this. cheers

Xylophone

Sounds like a job...for the Last DJ!