Shelter

Rock Israel...!
That was awesome! Thank you so much for posting that! (Perhaps post it in the Documentary Thread too?) I have not seen that one in ages.. like 25+ years... so that was quite a trip down memory lane, I did not know it was still floating around. Haven't even thought about looking for it.. it just completely skipped my mind. So, thank you kindly!
Goosebump moment nr 1: "You're gonna look for me in the middle of the night" (34:20 ish). Damn I miss Howie sometimes. Wish more of his stuff would be coming in loud and clear in the mix like that! Magic!
🐫🐫🐫🐫🐫
 

Right. Good points.
I really am after a rather general reflection here. The example of BD came to me mostly because of the lyrics and theme seem to associate ISHKI with it to some extent. Not only the raw n heavy blues riff drive. Like I said, musically they seem to have similarities in vibe, but also technical differences of course. Again, it's the combination of aesthetics and lyrics really. But BD really is just one example, and more signs of Zep inspiration in TPATH, if vague and scattered, are to be find, I think.
Speaking of: Oh, how this world would need John Bonham still in it!

Remember, though, that ISHKI is a Petty/Campbell joint, which likely means that dirty groove is Mike's.  But yeah, I totally get what you mean about the Zeppelin-esque quality.  To me it's Zeppelin filtered though the experience and abilities of those who came after.  I mean, dog bless Steve, but he's not bringing it like Bonzo - though I imagine Tom wouldn't want that, he never wanted to privilege the drums in latter-era TPATH.
I'm not sure I would compare it directly to "Black Dog" so much as it's just that Zeppelin aesthetic.  I know y'all aren't into TBC but there's a song of theirs - "Cosmic Friend" from Lions - which does the same thing.  It quotes LZ without quoting a specific source.  It's like listening to, say, Black Country Communion.  You know that sound when you hear it if you know that music.

Forward. I think.

I don’t go for them turnip greens.

Now we're talking! ☺ I love the extended jams and actually think that even when they did extend the jams they didn't extend them enough on many ocasions.One in all in would be my motto and I often felt that Tom called a premature halt on many longer jams when Mike and Benmont were getting into their stride...I think Tom was a believer in the don't bore us get to the chorus ethic especially with the Heartbreakers. 
Lost Children...Fillmore run. Fantastic extended jam but listen as Mike is ready to solo on and Tom cuts in for the outro.
MJLD. Austin Texas..Last DJ tour..the long distance person to person call monologue between Tom and a young lady...awesome. The Last DJ DVD version is awesome.
A Woman in Love 2012/2014 tour...great intensity that I thought they could have extended even further on ocasion.
Swingin...plenty of room for a 12 minute version thrown in a couple of times certainly merited it.
Travelling Light JJ Cale cover at Jazz Fest 2013..epic jam fest that one.
Shadow People..awesome tune, highlight of 2014 tour for me..could have done with a couple of 12 minute versions!
Too Much Ain't Enough..that French TV version from early 80's is fantastic...there was a latter era extended version they did when the 'finished ' and started up the song again on a couple of ocasions..I'm sure someone remembers the exact details..late noughties I think..
The last few IGTBK live versions from 2017 had a palpable sense of defiance in the way the Heartbreakers played it..I may never be able to bring myself to watch that again...I mentioned previously that it was as if the band were playing for Tom as much as with him..
In general you'll notice that in nearly every extended jam version of songs live Tom always reverted to a quiet mid song interlude and ratcheted things up at the end for a creschendo. I would have liked to see more balls to the wall heavy duty Crazy Horse/Led Zep type riffage more often..the mid section quiet interludes could have been used a bit more sparingly at select times but hey not complaining.
 

Oh, how some of you been waiting for this one! Here it is finally! How strange we never had a thread going about this before! How strange that I am the one starting it! How strange! How wonderful!
I seem to recall many threads being derailed due to our passion for discussing various aspects of TPATH's flair to extend certain songs live, to jam it out. So why not collect our thoughts about this phenomenon right here? I know some of us like their 20 minutes instrumentals with a fever that borders addiction, while others prefer it short, sweet and close to the studio versions, but I was thinking that this thread could be dedicated to the why and how come. Also when, on what songs? For example, we know how they liked to do this type of things to new songs that was to become live-only songs, but feel free to post examples of any kind!
Myself, I am not a jam man per design. I think it's a fine line between those times when a song is lifted to the higest level of art thanks to a good inspired and mind bending jam, and when they fall apart into an endless snooze fest with little point passed showing off. But when it works, it's quite amazing! Perhaps, needless to say, I think there seem to be a connection between how many times a song is cherry picked for this type of treatment and how well it ends up. In short - the songs the decide 
Again, I know some of this has been discussed many times, most recently in the TDIHWTUOHCQ thread, but to kick this off (and sorry for any repetition)  I would say that among my personal favorite TPATH jam moments out of these more frequent ones, the best examples of when they really reach that higher level of one conciousness: 
* Dog on The Run (several early versions, 77/78 era, as displayed below, from the 77 Record Plant sessions), 
* Fooled Again (some pretty spacey, versions from the 70s)
* Melinda (most versions are splendid!)
* Crystal River (most versions are splendid, especially from 2008!)
* Tweeter & The Monkey Man (2013 only, but what a performance - 10 minutes of bliss at the Fonda!)
* Mary Jane's Last Dance (this song is almost always fantastic, but some of the extended more free form versions are totally exceptional!)
As for full shows, some had more of this than others, obviously. But as a great example, one can see/hear TPATH at the top of this particular game, in many instances, on the Winterland, SF, 1978 show, where they treated the audience to an absolutely over the top rendition of Dark SIde Of The Street, a somewhat strange fun ending to Casa Dega as well as some of the mentioned Fooled Again spookiness. 
The frequently extended titles that I think works fine, even stunningly on occasion, but also oftentimes become routine and even boring: 
* Shout (Not my favorite cover, but their 77/78 era take had some especially great jams)
* Breakdown (Intense, at its best, very routine at its lesser moments) 
* Don't Come Around Here No More. (Say no more.)
* TDIHWTUOHCQ (I suppose this one never got into routine mode...  Great! Nevertheless, I wouldn't rank it among my very top favorites.)
* The Other Side of The Mountain (Just one tour, of course, but there were a few really cool versions of this somewhat unexpected masterpiece!)
 
The ones that I think, for the most part don't do much for me when extended or "trip:ed out", either by default or by being vastly overplayed:
* Two Men Talking
* Spike (To me it's a misconception that this song is even in the market for marathon treatment. Not more so than Yer So Bad, really.)
* IGTBK
* Gloria
* Mystic Eyes
 
Extras: Three songs that rarely have been treated to really loooong jams, and hence may not really belong in this thread, more than wishful thinking. That is, with a tendency to routine and/or perhaps a minute or two too short to really expand into stellar drive, they come in short of their potential most of the time.
* Runnin' Down A Dream (Great versions exists, of course! 2006 Gaineville is out of this world. But they could have had that as a minimum, or at least an average, instead of an all time high.) 
* ISHKI (Huge potential as a looong heavy jam song. But I don't hear neither 10% Zeppelin nor 50% top rate TPATH jam in most renditions, so... Again, oftentimes too short to really take of the way its character promises possible.
* Luna (A song that they never took far enough, and that was rarely played at all. But one that I think could have been extremely fantastic in a 7-8 minute deep, weird space jam version.)
 
 
    
 

^ Yeah, looking back, I think I misread things a bit. Just felt the urge to show how this "stretching out" thing certainly wasn't a latter era thing, then it turns out no one exactly said it was, I guess..

I thought we were having a conversation?
But those examples you cite I am thoroughly familiar with (my fandom dates back to that era, when I was a teenager) and I totally agree with you about their artistry in that era.  Those first two lineups were golden, capable of transcendence every night, whether they actually achieved it or not.

This is not a transcription but I just listened to it and he said something along the lines of, that George Harrison (or 'my dad' as he calls him) went off with some goths because he was bored (not sure that was the word he used, will have to listen again) with the rest of the Wilbury's in that particular moment, and TP wrote the song in a kind of retaliation. I felt that Dhani was a bit unclear as he told the anecdote so I may not have understood it right, but that was the gist of it as I understood it - probably to be understood tongue in cheek

Must say, there something to be said for this. Agreed. Oftentimes you hear fans say how what happened was mostly Stan's fault, how he treated Tom badly, how what went down was Stan's loss. (Well.. d'uh. His loss, financially, I bet.)  But, personally I find it hard, if not pointless, to point blame, who was wrong and who was right. Musical visions change, as do people. I really think long time personal differences from.. well, the start?...  should not be underestimated, in this case.  Bottom line, for me, is that we are ALL on the losing end of Stan jumping ship, in some ways!
As long as we strictly talk about the music aspect at least. I think the Stan dimension of the music had a lot of merit. What he added to the TPATH sound and what visions he may have had for moving on, did have  a lot of credit. If nothing else, I think history has proven him right, the way lots of Mojo and HE is written. It's not that Tom ever regretted the switch from a sonically "equal" rhythm section (with temper and soul) to what is essentially more of a "backdrop" (a "time keeping machine" as it were). It's not that he ever doubted that he found his "favorite drummer in the world" in Steve. No, God bless Tom for sticking to his visions, follwing his muse and for keeping on releasing fantastic music. But there is more to this, as I see it. Stuff that goes beyond personal issues that may have been at the core, and beyond how the music was produced that may have been used as a "reason" for falling out, stuff that has to do with the very music itself, the inner qualities in Tom's songwriting.
The way I hear Tom's music, I would suggest that while the certain streak in Tom's songwriting that did rub Stan the wrong way, was gonna be there to stay from FMF on, it had in fact, been there a long time already by then. Perhaps it can be traced to a desire or a calling to write things with more of a polished and/or easy going pop sentiment, around the Southern Accents era? Perhaps even further back? More importantly: in hindsight it's plain to see that there wasn't a universal and irreversible shift from rock to mellow, from band to solo, the way Stan perhaps perceived it. If he perhaps felt the experiences with FMF, ITGWO and WF were substantially a logical end station for Tom, a new level at which Tom had arrived with his music, one that very rarely required the Heartbreakers as a band anymore, let alone in the original rock'n'roll sense, that is quite understandable. But if he did so, he was wrong! Not only did those very albums have stuff that was essentially Heartbreakers in character still - if at times masked by production beyond recognition - but before long, Tom was again to write and release more consistently in a rather Stan oriented, TPATH band vein, that is stuff that Stan would have added beautifully to, had he ever had the chance. If anything, by Mudcrtuch reunion and Mojo, Tom seemed to be fully back at an understanding and a desire in terms of his music, that was as band oriented and no-bs as it had ever been, writing stuff that was very "equal", very grounded in rock'n'roll and in many ways.. very Stan!* 
I for one can see how Stan would have suffered some, trying to stay alive creatively through some eras, had he stayed. Stan much more  so than say Ben (or Mike, who seemed to alwas to stay on the bright side ). And for me as a listener, I'm not sure I would have benefited much either, from hearing Stan on Wildflowers sessions, or on the lion parts of Echo or Last DJ. Very few songs there feels right for him and even fewer of the ideas on how to produce the stuff. He would be largely obsolete in that context. In the same way I also doubt I would have felt much difference, had it been Steve on ITGWO, for that matter. Stan is there, but he's not really there. All of it is a transitional era, where the drumming became as much a wallpaper as an integral instrument, is what I'm saying. That's how I hear it.
I'm sure, had the the personal aspects been different, Stan would have delivered perfectly (and in my taste, perhaps more interestingly as well) in the live context throughout. Most of all, Stan would have been right back in style on all levels for the last 10 years that was to be had of TPATH music - live AND studio. That is my conviction.** 
But that was never to be, for many obvious reasons and it is what it is. One such reason though is surely that Tom really - no matter the material he wrote, or the creative phases he went through in terms of roots and band aspects of his music - had made his mind up, he had decided sometime around his affiliations with Jeff Lynne that he wanted his beat to clinical, a sort of "preprogrammed" backdrop to his songs rather than a dynamic integral part of it. He wanted reliable. He wanted Steve. And he stuck to that vision to the very end, despite everything else. In that sense, I guess Stan may have been right all along, and he may have sensed it early on: Tom did develop a new vision for his songs - no matter where he went with his music - pop or rock, kicking or mellow, band or solo - he was ultimately gonna go with another beat than Stan would offer. He found his perfect technical solution (and perhaps also important, a socially smoother solution too) in Steve. Good call in some ways, I'm sure. It may have been what prolonged the journey, what saved the vessel, as it were.
But again, focusing on the music only, to me all this means, that at least in some ways - even with all the great post Stan music we've had, kept in mind, and even if Tom himself would've never admited as much - some of the Stan leaving, was not only his loss, or our loss, it was also Tom's loss.
In short: Stan's wild streak doesn't always fit, but to me it fits a lot better and a lot more often with Tom's music, than Tom seemed to think.
Not sure how this thread became a Stan thread.. quite ironically so..     
 
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*Not that neither Tom nor Stan would like Stan to come near it... Just saying. As far as visions and ideals go, what goes around comes around.. 
**In my book Steve works perfectly for some of the 1994-2002 studio material. Further he works great in every live context, of course! My personal taste for.. soul?.. though, tells me I prefer Stan's live drumming over Steve's. Further, Big chunks of Mojo and Hypnotic Eye make me think that Stan perhaps would have been preferable to the late era TPATH studio work too. To some extent Stan strikes me as the "missing link" in making HE the all out bad ass rock album it promises to be. (And almost is. It's a great album!) That's all rather hypothetical, but that's how I understand the songs and how I like the drums to work within the music.
 

Rather than flat out "rejecting" the album, I suppose what happened at MCA was "the A&R man said 'I don't hear a single' ". Literally, they did see no hits on FMF as Tom presented it to them! That is almost as absurd as Decca passing on Beatles, imo. However, when he added the decided light weight cover of "Feel a Whole Lot Better" and a few people changed chairs at MCA, then suddenly they DID feel a whole lot better about the prospect. That is actually as weird as it is funny. Not a bad song at all, but seriously...
I'm not positive if this is correct, but could it, possibly, be that be while hanging, unsure if the album was gonna be released or not, that he searched for something to push it over the edge, so to speak, that he recorded Waiting For Tonight with The Bangles?? Did I dream this? Then again, the latter track featured a more complete line up of The Heartbreakers, if I'm not mistaken, and then when FMF suddenly got an ok, with the inclusion of FAWLB, there was no time or need to figure out how or if that new song fitted anyway... Also, I always thought Waiting For Tonight originally was penned for a planned TPATH Let Me Up (I've Had Enough) follow up album that got scrapped or put on hold, when Tom steered in the arms of the Traveling Wilburys, a context and an experience I guess you could say FMF was born out of. Not sure if any of this has anything to do with The Heartbreaker's recenting Tom's solo album. Perhaps to some extent it did.
To me what makes FMF a solo album is not only the arrangements. As for Wildflowers and to some extent also Highway Companion, I can imagine TPATH versions of the material, that is with a slightly different arrangement and production they could both have been full blown and great band albums. With FMF, I really think there is something intrinsically solo about the whole thing, about the very material. (I mean, in no small ways are the cover shot of FMF a sorta half body remake of the first album, which was, btw, originally labeled as "Tom Petty" rather than "Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers" since the deal was originally his alone). In my mind, Love Is A Long Road is the only song on the album that could be reimagined as a band song, in the traditional Heartbreakers sense.
That goes to say that while I can understand what people say about The Heartbreakers (sans Mike) supposedly feeling let down with some of Tom's choices in 1988-1989, leaving them on the outside as it were, I really think that Stan and Ben truly felt the music - both many of the songs and much of how they were realized by Tom and Jeff - was less band oriented and interesting from their perspective. Perhaps this goes for Howie too (although, admittedly, he was per se as much of a session player/singer as a band guy). They probably could appreciate the stunning parade of pop hits that was the album, but they might not have seen much of their own music identity in it. I can imagine they initially - before they all had to play many of the songs every night for the rest of their lives, making them TPATH anyway in a way - did not actually like FMF that much. Not only because they basically weren't on it or because they felt Tom left them hanging, but because it was not really the type of material or production style that they were into. Especially Stan, I'd say. Don't get me wrong, but in terms of his personal musical integrity he was probably quite happy not to be on FMF, as he seemed a bit frustrated about what he had to "act up", as it were, on ITGWO.
In short, I think FMF promised to mean a bigger artistic change in Tom than it ended up becoming and I think that put a little bit of a scare on everybody. Save for Mike, for some reason. Perhaps his love for the Running Down A Dream riff made him look past everything else, perhaps he just had trust enough in Tom to stick with it, to ride it out and see what happened, perhaps he really was the only one Tom trusted enough to stay a core part of it. I don't know. But it must have been tricky times for The Heartbreakers. Until the tour went underway, anyway. As a sidenote: It is funny to me, how they - in various ways - seem to mock the whole situation shamelessly in the few video skits they filmed for extra material to the "A Bunch Of Videos and Some Other Stuff" release around this same time. It's hard to be quite sure if Stan was just acting when he butchered that drum machine, or if Howie was perhaps grumpy and bitter for real when he storms off on his bike. Either way, it's fabulous stuff.
All that aside, I think there can be no question that a vast majority of the fans REALLY fell in love with this album and this collection of songs, from the start. I think the success speaks for itself, really. There may have been fans recognizing the same dimensional shift that Stan saw, seeing that it was a bit different, perhaps not being totally thrilled about how it seemed to steer away from rock'n'roll a bit. But I think very few of them could dismiss the charm of it all together. Moreover FMF did pull in tons of new fans, and also.. let's not forget.. The combination of that laid back pop style of Tom's songs, Jeff's ideas on sound (like commented on above!), the recent success of Traveling Wilburys, the peak of MTV, all line up like that, with a whiff of skateboards, palm trees, sunshines and boulevards, south Cal and LA style, in 1989 this created the perfect storm in terms of success for Tom. Never before and never since has a Tom Petty album been more fashionable, commercially right-in-time for the big league, and straight out hip. ITGWO did ride the tail on that same wave, so to speak, and Wildflowers was prefect and right in time too, in a slightly different, less sunny way.. But I'd say that 88-95 era was when Tom was the most in-tune with mainstream fashion, most full blown "adult pop" he ever was, and obviously recognized as much himself, keeping the landmarks of this era close to his heart and to his live act all to the very end. 
We can say whatever we like (and I do) and we can disect other "deeper" or "technical" or even "social" aspects of the music Tom made on FMF, but in short: what's not to like??

I love this album, and I love the Iovine trilogy, although Hard Promises is actually my favorite of the three.  But for me, primarily it's the sound of this album which is so compelling.  It's something which I think has been identified in later assessments, thus a perfect combination of songwriting, arrangements, performance and recording.  The dynamics, the sound of it is so important and definitely one of the reasons why the album got over on a worldwide level.  Like people say now: THOSE DRUMS THO - every time I listen to "Don't Do Me Like That," for example, I marvel at those massive crisp fills.  Amazing.   However they got what they wanted out of Stan - eventually - they definitely got it.  And to consider it was all tracked live (although I don't doubt there are some overdubs), how wild is that?  "Here Comes My Girl" will never cease to be a "church" song for me, it's so achingly joyful.  I was having a conversation with one of my close friends who isn't a fan of latter-day TPATH at all and isn't even too fond of Torpedoes and I said, "Look you need to listen to 'Here Comes My Girl' and get your mind right, friend.  Tell me that's not genius!"  There aren't many songs I would proselytize for, but that's one of them - a moment of true Petty/Campbell genius, perfectly expressed by all of them.

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, hi everyone.
The videos which Jim directed at times seem to exhibit that insular sense of humor, with elements tied to the guys themselves - Benmont being  a curmudgeon in "Letting You Go," for example.  I've always thought that was maybe Jim's best inside joke - those couple seconds of Stan.  If anything, the boys are rather cartoonish - Howie doesn't even look anything like himself - but Stan is mostly definitely himself, right down to the smirk.  It seems, to me, to speak to his personality but in a way that only a particular demographic would appreciate.  But the subtext is fascinating, I agree.

That is actually the 3rd version. 1st was around 1999!

Also, in A Bunch Of Videos and Some Other Stuff, they overlay bits of text over some of the videos. In the video for "The Waiting," there's a "MIKE HATES THIS SHOT," and "I Won't Back Down" has "BIG HEAD GOES SOLO." Pretty amusing stuff.
EDIT: Here's some screenshots!

It has to be said.
The most brilliant and funniest thing ever in a music video is the big smile on Stan Lynch's face when he switches channels, from a nuclear explosion to a guy with a pantomime horse in the video for "Jammin' Me".
His expression makes me laugh out loud every time!

There are quite a few. I almost lost a wheel not far from Santa Cruz once. Even if it got fixed before it all turned into a "trip", I suppose that counts.
 

I still find this (refering to Stan being in the RDAD video) to be one of the more odd and funny moments in the history of this band. And people blame Stan for being difficult.
Back to topic - needless to say, the music promo videos made by this band are fantastic - I just recently saw It's Good To Be King, for the first time since it was first out. I almost forgot it existed! It's quite a nice one:
 
Well, I suspect we've done it before in the past. Forgive me if we recently did and it just skips my mind just now. I know it was done over at the official bbs back in the early 00s, but perhaps it's time again to list the official promo video discography here. This may be a good place to start. Anyone feel like working?
 

The New Guy, Steve Ferrone played The Dirty Knobs, "Rumble" on his radio show today!  I was so excited to see them on the radio!  Back in 2010 one of our Farmer's sons found a credit for The Dirty Knobs playing this song on their StarCraft 2 video game.  I snagged it of course.  I have always loved it.  If anyone is interested in the song, you can pick up the MP3 here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V8WidxmWmBPyop-cJrnHPiSWN_ZGG88P   I am so looking forward to their album!!  

Again, we derailed a perfectly good topic. At least a little.. 
And while we're at it, speaking of Highway Companion being so "low key", it's sound not "contemporary". When I think some more about that, track by track faced with Full Moon Fever, I find it deeply fascinating how just two or three less upbeat songs (mellower in tone and lyrics) makes such a huge impact on the vibe.
Each album has a Yer So Bad, an Alright For Now and a Face in The Crowd. Perhaps each can be said to have a Flirting With Time and a Saving Grace too. Sure enough, FMF doesnt have anything much as depressing as Damaged by Love, and HC never comes close to rocking out a la Runnin' Down a Dream. And I guess that is where it's at. Still.. there is more similarities than one may think. Yet such totally different albums. Of course.

Let me rephrase the question:
Are there any situations that don't remind me of a Tom Petty song?
No, thanks for that question, it's wonderful reminiscing.
 
Into The Great Wide Open: Sitting in my parent's living room, waiting for this magical song to come on MTV, early 90s; that's how I got to know Tom's music
Learning to Fly: Listening to the Greatest Hits on some New Year's Eve in the early 90s at a friend's house
Mary Janes's Last Dance: Some school event in winter in a youth hostel in the middle of nowhere, late 90s
American Girl: Hanging out with our American exchange student, playing poker, eating nachos, 1997
To Find a Friend: Playing guitar for friends outdoors in a valley near our village, early summer, maybe 1998
Room At The Top: Hearing it for the first time before a band rehearsal and thinking: Boy, he must be in a very bad place right now, 1999
Runnin' Down a Dream: Driving with my girlfriend at the time and her parents through Florida, we were on Kings Highway, and RDAD came on the radio... I remember thinking: Would have been even more fun if they had played Kings Highway...
The Last DJ: Driving home from Munich with my ex-girlfriend at the time (emotionally confused), this one came on the radio - heard it for the first time then, 2002
Damaged By Love: Driving to a small concert I played in Franconian Switzerland where I was to meet my future wife, 2006
Angel Dream: Performing it in church at the wedding of a good friend of mine, 2008
I Should Have Known It: Listening to it while jogging in the town I lived in back then, 2009
Wildflowers: Performing it with my cousin at my youngest son's baptism, late 2010 and again at the baptism of my wife's goddaughter, 2017
 
That could probably go on for a bit.

Very true! Like has been suggested, if it wasn't for the minor instrumentals and the double takes of Angel Dream and Walls (also perhaps the somewhat unusual presence of no less than two covers... and of course the sleeve), not much would suggest that this isn't just another stellar studio album by TPATH. In fact, if you cut the double takes and the instrumentals out, STO still runs like a perfectly normal and really great album of 11 songs. All the parts are in there. And for once with these overloaded albums - the plentiful existence of filler can be explained.
 
Yes! Interesting dimension, this. At least it can be argued that Tom was on his way of becoming a Neil, there for awhile. It could also be argued that he couldn't quite take the heat, though, of all that being a obnoxious loner with ideas really implies. Before his toes barely hit the water of doing things fully his own way, he was going back to Jeff Lynne, going for straighter, slicker productions, playing safer and safer live sets to focus his performances on taking really good care of his casual main stream mass audience, in a way Neil would never have given a flying *&% to do, ever. I mean, comparison is really difficult and complex and bound to be unfair to both of them. Neil always was more prolific. And, a lot less of a perfectionist, Neil is too!  and perhaps also more "difficult" than Tom ever was. Though Tom was known to be "difficult" too and fought some heroic moral struggles early on, with age a lot of all that became more about words. Tom was a super great, loveable and cool guy, playing the game as it is, for most parts, whereas Neil always been more wayward, willful, positively a jerk at times, acting rather than talking his version of morals, inside a million projects. In many ways Tom became a Neil Light, sure, and in some ways he was also more professional and he sure produced a lot less clunkers too. But in terms of mellowing out from the pop chart hype and mainstream success that they both had for periods of time, into older more mature men with less of a hit focus (at least to their records).. more craftsmen and artists that is, than products played by labels, trying to stay new and fresh.... sure, that's the route most longevity stars - save perhaps Madonna - take when they get older. There's few things more pathetic then 50+ yo acts pretending they are 19, trying to appeal to the kids. 
Either way, I always thought of Greendale as being the The Last DJ of the Neil universe. One of the most underrated albums of all time, that. And quite a charming film too. As it came out in 2003, it's not impossible that Neil found some inspiration from Tom on that one. 
 
 

Thanks for moving the discussion so it's actually on-topic!
Like I had hoped, Shelter and also MJ2LD, you cleared the view a bit in those posts in the old thread. Lack of vision and direction surey were the reasons the album turned out the way it did. A producer could have helped. While sometimes an album that's kind of all over the place and unfocused can be fascinating to listen to, but that's certainly not the case with Let Me Up.
They should have made two albums or a double album: 1) Tom's raw rock'n'roll songs and 2) Mike's attempts at pop hits.
Or even better, they should have dedicated each side of the record to one of those categories. That might have worked, despite the somewhat substandard material! In a similar way Neil Young's Hawks And Doves works. Not a great album, maybe not even a good one, but somehow fascinating.
 
Side One:
1) Jammin' Me
2) Let Me Up
3) Got My Mind Made Up (heck, it would be nice to have this one and the next two on the album, that was a great idea, I'll just steal it)
4) Ways to be Wicked
5) Can't Get Her Out
6) A Self-Made Man
 
Side Two:
1) It'll All Work Out
2) My Life/Your World
3) Ain't Love Strange
4) All Mixed Up
5) Runaway Trains
 
OK, the principle of dedicating one side to one category is not perfectly applied, but I can't think of anything else right now. In my mind this would already improve the album.

I'm not sure 'weakest' is the right word for it. Try 'masterpiece'!