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Mudcrutch Farm Will Be Shutting Down - Read More...

Shelter

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Posts posted by Shelter

  2. Posted · Report reply

    I don' see why this is dull.

    You have some really good points there! For one thing, I don't think 'dull' is the proper word for it, even if one, like I very much do, agree with TP's stand that there actually is an important and delicate difference between constructing an album and constructing a live show. 'Strange' would be a better word.

    Also, certainly the unheard songs argument and the argument that this does not have anything to do with selling tickets. Agreed! Even the commie listening experience argument is a good one. :) Still TP's main concern, as I see it, still stands. The whole concept seems to me a bit like a runaround, compared to simply playing a varied, well constructed set that fathoms different eras and aspects of the catalog in ever changing new ways, so that those unheard songs gets played anyway, in a less forced manner.

    Btw - I suppose the incentive for BS to do album themed shows it is that he, much unlike TP, already did the mixed up approach so thoroughly, he even made an art of playing long and winding shows that has everything (cept good music :D ), that he perhaps, somewhat perversly, got so tired of all the spontanity and started to wonder, where to go from there. Perhaps the time had come when he wanted things to be a bit more predictable and conceptual - a brand new experience for him and his audiance to actually know what song would come next! Imagine the thrill of knowing the whole set, once you've heard three songs and detected the theme at hand. That can't even be done at a TP show, mind you, unless, of course, you sneak a peak at setlist.fm to see what they did yesterday. Ok. Again, I'm being overly sarcastic here, but perhaps you catch my drift. Perhaps this set up makes more sense to BS, I'm not sure. To me it does just make sense in minor parts.

     

    Ah, nevermind. Tom does what he wants to do and it'll be fine with me.

    Well, yeah. That. Only - as has been mentioned - what he wants and what he says he wants does not necessarily compute, from what it seems.. But perhaps in this case it does. Like you say, nevermind - with music like his, it sure will be "fine" anyhow.

  3. Posted · Report reply

    Cutting back to the intimate venue means losing money argument for a second. I think what TP implies should only make sense in the context of hitting small venues within the frames of a larger tour. Obviously the big venue, big tour, equipment and entourage cost a lot of money. Numbers I dare not even think about. Thus bringing the 20 big trucks to the back lot of the Troubadour does not only mean clogging up the parking situation, even if you tuck all the unnecessary and/or oversized stuff, the menagerie and so on away on some huge parking lot in Burbank, while you are busy having the time of your life with a camper full or two worth of equipment and people in that small venue, it could of course possibly also mean having a haywiring expense account for all the excess stuff and people that you have no use for. (Not to mention what the odd 500 people crew and their families would do to some 500 people capacity room.) All in all this scenario leaves very little room - literally and symbolically - for paying guests and even less for any profit. It must mean losing money. If contracts were actually written like that, with payrolls that don't match the layed out itinerary which I very much doubt. This is all speculations anyway, just trying to get my head around it.

     

    However - I am thinking - cutting the expenses, adjusting the whole concept to fit a small show (or a tour of small shows), not paying any freeloaders, not keeping unnecessary crew in general - that is keeping it tight, simple and small scale - should make the calculations balance out better, one would think. It would mean lesser gross profit, I think that's beyond a doubt. But that, after all, is not the same as losing money. Just saying. I am having a hard time believing that all these acts that travel the small venue cirquit prefessionally and quite successfully do this year in and year out on their own expence. But who knows.. It is supposedly a lot of fun, so..

  4. Posted · Report reply

    Oh, that? I was merely being sarcastic. Call it a defense mechanism, in the face of a severely crippled sense of basic logic. All this talk far and wide of what they are about and what they love to do, still so very little to show for it. As far as I know, there is no law like the one I mentioned. I was just being drastic. It's just words anyway, right. It's not that they have to be literal or that I have to deliver on anything I say. Deal?  

  8. Posted · Report reply

    Like I said - I would enjoy any of them, if only for the reason mentioned. And I would, again, perhaps especially enjoy any of the first five, out of which LAD is one, if I'm not mistaken :) But by all means, even if it wouldn't be an optimal show, I would perhaps go for LAD if you put a gun to my head (and TP's then), should they ever go for a concept like this. You might be right about that.

  9. Posted · Report reply

    I lean towards TP's own view on this. An album - no matter how well crafted - does not automatically lend itself to what is required of a good concert.

     

    However, I can imagine that any of the first five albums would have made for a decent main set, or core of a longer set. At least on paper. As for the rest of them, I suppose Last DJ is the one that comes closest. It would - and did - work alright as a show. At the same time, to me, that also really exposes some of the weakness and shortcomings of the album as a supposed "concept album". It would take a more thoroughly carried out concept to begin with, that is. -- Perhaps even accompanied in the live situation with some video displays following the score along nicely on screens, tying it together and exapanding on the experience (like an art-video version of a rock opera, if you see what I mean... not an actual movie to fit the music to). I could see something like that working, but then again, that is speculation and rather hypothetical - since the album in that actual concept shape does not exist. (As it stands, I suppose ITGWO could be presented in a live show setting as as much of a concept as LDJ - The Adventures of Eddie Rebel and all that..)

     

    Still, of course I would enjoy almost any album themed live show with TP&TH. For the sake of all the forgotten gems that such a show would bring forth, if nothing else. If a good and really varied mix of material just can't be had, I suppose some "album shows" would at least mean some excitement, but it's not on the top of my list, no.

    Magnolia reacted to this

  11. Posted · Report reply

    ^same thing with Refugee.

     

    I'm okay with that though. I'd rather hear those songs played in the original tune than a ) tuned down a couple of steps or b ) not at all.

    I would consider b ) . :D

    But no, actually, every now and then it's nice to hear them in an original as possible shine, so Im ok with it too. That said, I would welcome reworked version, reinterpretations and so on too, bringing old songs into the current realm of the band. Would be very interesting to see them twist stuff and adjust to their contemporary ideas, sounds and suitable keys. Not that they don't do this to so e extent, but still.. Could be done a lot more! One thing does not preclude the other I suppose and after all, using "magic" is less optimal and less r'n'r than not using it so.. it's a bit of a trade-off and a thing I'd rather they used with caution and as an exception.

  12. Posted · Report reply

    Thanks so much for sharing! A most interesting read!

    It is indeed great news that the Mudcrutch plans are confirmed thusly. Let's hope they get quickly and smoothly into their magic groove once more, arriving at some cool material and nail the recordings, so we get to hear it before the end of the year. (Here's to hoping that Leadon snaps up and brings better stuff than the GoGo Girls to the table this time.. :) )

     

    Looks like I'm getting my wish for a stand alone album - Wildflowers All The Rest. Very excited about that!  :)

    Yes, good to hear that being confirmed more in detail like this. When most previous rumors have been up for interpretations and guessing, this was pretty clear. And pretty darn exactly what I too was hoping for, seemingly.

     

    ...and that they will probably hold off on Wildflowers Best Of The Rest until next year to coincide with the bands 40th anniversary to boost sales....

    That would be a most sad two years delay from first revealing the plans. Especially worrysome I find what TP says about it all being done and ready, just waiting on the shelf basically without even a set date or a plan. After all the rumors, speculation and press this album has got (I try to think of any other TP release that has gotten this much pre-hype) - and still there is actually no actual masterplan for it? Amazing. And a little worrysome, even my own anticipation taken aside.. :)

    Moreover - a left over material album from the early 90's, like this one, would be a most weird way to celebrate the 40th anniversary I think. It's at the same time both a too important release in it's own right - which the TP quotes seems to imply that the office think as well - to be mixed up in some other schemes or themes and too unworthy (random, arbitrary, if you like) or just too specific, to be made a rear view release or a symbol for the 40 years passed. I really hope they know to separate the two in tasteful way. Most of all I hope they have it out asap, at the very latest for Christmas. No questions asked.

     

    The pacing of the show is really important. You're trying to keep a lot of people on the same page. There's an art to doing that.

    That quote.. As much as I agree with and admire those sentiments from the bottom of my heart, TP and I seem to differ quite a bit on the rich variety of possibilites in terms of how to achieve that keeping of "a lot of people on the same page", that is what the actual "art" consists of. Still, everytime I come to terms with this disagreement, make peace in my heart with all the lost possibilities and fading dreams and hard dying hopes.. he goes..

     

    I love the whole idea of doing a different show every night.

    Oh man........ how it hurt my brains when he does that..

  14. Posted · Report reply

    I'd say it means pretty much that, yeah. To call an audible is usually that if something should happen, how it will be done, or when, is due to last minute decisions, yeah. "Perhaps I feel like making them clap." "Perhaps I just go 'Whoooaa, whooooaa'".

    In this context this sounds awefully spontaneous and totally out of character. Until you stop and think about what it means. The fact that you even script a "clapping" section, no matter how "audible", is.. well.. let's just say it's paradoxical. Cute, is the word that comes to mind. By all means - maybe some on-stage or off-stage personel need a reminder that there could be a bit of a "moment", side-steppinging the pre-set program at any time, that this set list, despite of appearance, is no robot manual. "Hey.. Steve.. wake up! Be ready to mute those drums at any time, yeah.. don't just sit there boom:ing away all night, will you!!"

    Rock'n'Roll!!

  15. Posted · Report reply

    This is of course, assuming you've got something to play it on; otherwise Wildflowers would just sit there and you'd stare at it and maybe pretend you could hear it. Hey, the cd would be good for signaling to passing ships!

    :D That is funny! CDs are so much better than vinyl that way. Suppose one should ask oneself.. what disc would be the best for signaling?!

    Not sure to what extent this issue is any different than picking your favorite album, really. Unless, of course, your motive would differ.. depending on scenario.. Perhaps the idea would be to bring the most annoying stuff imaginable, in order to increase your drive and incentives to get the h*ll out of there. (In which case I would probably not think to bring any TP at all.. perhaps a burnt single track disc of Heartbreaker's Beach Party or Don't Pull Me Over if so..)

    I guess this is all why I always keep a stick of carefully picked Flac files in my First Aid Kit - in case of sonic emergency. (How mad I would be if I get washed up on that island and all there is would be an old cassette player! - Better stuff that emergency kit with a player too.. oh, and some speakers.. and a set of solar panels - the weather will be nice, right?!)

    A case can be made that I would simply bring a guitar and some extra strings and make do with my own funky versions of every song I can think of. The hard case could even double as a canoe.

  17. Posted · Report reply

    Another interesting thing with this thread so far, is the comparatively frequent mentioning of Breakdown. Love it! It's really cool that several people here seems to have been onboard this train more or less since it left the station, so to speak. :) Kudos!

    I find what I read to be a refreshing update on the often repeated official story - at least a story I've heard and believed - that it primarily was the UK that took TP&TH to heart, offered air play and ticket sales early on, while the home market was less interested at first, things moving slowly, with some of the early singles catching on just in time for the big breakthrough with Damn The Torpedoes a few years later. It's good to hear that this is perhaps not to be overstated, that apparently a lot of people actually got to hear some of the Shelter stuff on the radio from the start. That said, I guess it's no surprise if the ones that got it then, are the ones that are still fans today and visit this site, so.. Anyway. How cool that must have been!

  19. Posted · Report reply

    Would be interesting to combine information from this thread and the "island-album"-thread (given that the same persons make posts) to see if my theory holds up that the first song you listen to (and thus the album it came from) shapes your preferences, even in the long run.

    Was thinking the same thing.. To see how this first contact aspect would effect any of the multiple preference rank threads that discuss the albums, songs, live sets and such.

    In my case, your theory holds - if only in parts. I think my first exposure to TP was the album Long After Dark, and thus the opening track One Story Town was the first song. This was sometime in 1982 or 83, from a cassette unto which someone dubbed the LP for the listening pleasures of my father. And lo and behold, over time LAD really has become my favorite TP album!

    Although - mind you - I was pretty young at the time, and while I thought LAD sounded pretty cool and "mature" in a much enticing way, I was only too soon off to enjoy some one hit wonder of the time, some oldies 60s records that I loved or perhaps Twisted Sister. :D And I suppose similar things happened when hearing/seeing Don't Come Around Here No More or Jammin' Me - songs that to me, much like MJ2LD suggests, were really more videos than songs on records. They looked cool most of all, Jammin Me was so modern.

    But to cut to the core. My first REAL - focused and obsessed - TP fan was later in the 80s, when I happened to hear some of the Shelter era stuff and really fell in love with it instantly - when I heard Anything That's R&R for the first time, I knew it was forever before the song was even through! At the same time I was catching up, as it were, and I was discovering the then contemporary state of things - called stuff like Traveling Wilburys and Full Moon Fever - stuff that I was equally, or even more so, floored by. (Yes, in those days the Jeff sound really tickled my ears in all the right way - brilliant stuff all around, and light weight in a way that can be appealing, and yes.. this is where your theory starts to fall apart.. :) )

    That said.. with age and time, this my first actual TP era split in two eventually.. The 70s stuff remained favorites over the years, while the FMF experience soon slowly began entering the shadows of so much of the other great stuff, previous and coming. To me the FMF thrill first got deepened and widened with the ITGWO experience - if you would have asked me in 1992 or 1993, I'm sure I would tell you that FMF was not only my first favorite, but that it would always be so. But alas, while ITGWO prooved to be a timeless masterpiece(despite some of the less timeless of its sounds) to keep along for life, my interest and long term excitement with my first TP obession FMF, soon ended up at the lower half of my personal ranking. So.. for me, I guess it goes a bit both ways in terms of early favorites and long term favorites.

    You grow older, wiser, gather experience.. get more stuff to compare with.. learn how to listen for different things and in different ways.. Much like the artists themselves - most of them, at least the genius ones - you move on. SOmetimes it's just with the benefit of decades of hindsight that really gives you the perspective on things, that reveals what holds and what doesn't, right? To some extent, the older you get, the better you get at detecting what you like. But at the same time.. the more rusty and stuck in your old ways you get too, so..

    Good question - got me thinking.

    Magnolia reacted to this

  22. Posted · Report reply

    Couldn't quite put my finger on it until now but the main problem with and reason for my misgivings about the production sound on HE is that you can't hear enough of Benmont.

    Ah, yes. Big Ben. That is all very interesting, actually. And well put. Being a bit of a Ben man myself, I very much agree with what you say about 'Ben the glue'. Much like TP phrasing, Ben's smooth work always add magic, sometimes in your face and a lot of the time very much in the shadows or in the fine prints. Making all the difference, really. Can't be stated enough.

    And I too have been noticing the same thing about HE. But I rather see the album as the unexpected exception from the rule, w/r/t Ben. That is, for once I'm fine with how the songs and the sound work with this lesser pronounced Benness. (Which is not to say that they they could've worked, if differently, with more contributions i/t/o keys, something I think these songs could be treated with, for variation and exploration, in a live setting - should most of these songs ever get played live, that is..)

    That said, I'm not sure it's about the mix. At least not entirely. Like you imply at the end of your post, I think that at least for several of the songs they just had Ben add fitting stuff sporadically, rather than him playing all over the album only to be mixed down or edited out at the end. At least that would be my guess, seems like the material took that route and that they were bent on a certain vibe this time. Too bad in a way, still.. like I said, somewhat against my own judgement, I think it's the first time it works pretty well with so little Ben. Besides.. no wonder Ben had time to finish his long awaited solo album in the meantime.. :D

  23. Posted · Report reply

    No one does it as sincerely and naturally and with as much humour as he does.

    Very true, a very special quality that is!

    As mentioned by a few people Tom is a master of the phrasing, just as one of his heroes Bob Dylan was. The song Echo is a great example of this.

    For sure! Echo is an absolutely great example. Another good one in that respect could be Have Love Will Travel. Stuff that really are going places thanks to TP delivery. As is so much in the catalog. Come to think of it, some of the best moments of the Mojo album are also some of the best examples of this. I know.. many aspects of Mojo to me add up to me not being particularly fond of it as an album (its' length, track sequence, outtakes, "intakes".. and so on), but the stuff of greatness that never the less is on Mojo really entirely comes down to two things, as I hear it - a great sound and a great phrasing. I mean, perfectly good songs - Running Man's Bible, Trip to Pirate's Cove and pehaps most notably the utterly cool Good Enough and the smooth Something Good Coming, even the often times soarly overlooked No Reason To Cry - are turning true classics thanks to TP singing/phrasing. Entire new worlds are coming to life in my mind when hearing some of that stuff.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    Tom is right in believing the flow of a concert is very important; where he is wrong is thinking there is only one way to achieve a good flow! There are so many cool ways, lots of which probably unforeseen, that songs could be openers, or closers, or segue into each other.

    Yes, exactly that. It's been discussed before and I think it's one of the key aspects to this issue. Contrary to popular belief, "there are so many ways". You said it.

    I don't think there's any financial incentive to change it up

    Question is if there is any financial incentive n-o-t to change it up. Given that they really want to. For one thing, like you say, selling downloads or live streamed shows would suddenly make more sense - and even if that won't make them the ginormous amounts of extra money perhaps imagined, and even if they don't even do it anyway.. again, like you say, there are plenty proof and plenty of other acts showing how a more varied set can be a real thing, when music and joy is what matters to performers (it does not have to be about improv either, mind you.) Well, I am not gonna name names, but we all know who they are, who really dig through their catalogs, without skipping over the key hits, who play long and varied shows - within tours or from tour to tour. So, no doubt, both from a market and musical points of view it can easily be done, in a lot of creative and sound ways. As I so often conclude, it simply comes down to the will to do it.
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