Shelter

Ok, thanks! I know the general outlines of the "loudness wars" issue, the DRDB and all that. And find it generally fascinating. Although, for most parts I haven't cared too much, never prepared to venture too deeply into differences not overly obvious. And focusing on vinyl originals, I rarely get stuck on bad stuff either. But what's fun in this case, is the golden opportunity to get some views and insight in these matters from a fellow TP fan. Like you say, it's the personal experience that counts.. and certain remaster (re)issues are to be shunned, night and day, that much I've noticed too.. But again - whether I agree or not - learning about the audiophile general "truth" within the TP catalog is interesting. So keep rolling it out, please.

Ha. dollardime, there is something to that actually. Well spotted. My cents: A good, fun song. The drumming - quite ironically - sounds a bit thin, 'unhappening' and machine like, for a Mudcrutch tune. Not quite up to par as a composition, to your average TP tune either (of course), but good enough. Randall does every bit as good on the vocals as did Tom2 on the last album. And that is me trying to be nice to all involved. Production kinda saves the song as I see it (cept for perhaps the drum track, that is) - a goof drive, got an almost Jeff Lynne atmosphere for a few moments in the chorus and the break is actually awesome, reminds me of something Wildflowers era. The general riff and feel is quite energized and good. Depending on the vocals, this one could be great and quite heavy live, no?

Oh.. this thread? What album was this again?!

Interesting! Thanks for sharing! Let me just linger with the Shelters for one moment. Do you happen to know when/what year the first CD version of those two were released? I am curious, since their existence seems to have been overlooked/mistaken on my part for so long. Guess it didn't help that I never seen any 80s issues of those around nor that the word "Remaster" itself didn't become quite the sales pitch mark it did - and started quite an avalanche of reissues at that, an avalanche that we are buried in to this day - until much later in the 90s and early 00s. Of course there always been remastering involved when reissuing albums, when transfering analoge to digital and so on, but I just wasn't aware of the extent to which early digital and supposedly remastered versions so swiftly remastered themselves. I thought all that, for commercial reasons if no else, started (and kinda got out of hand*) later. As for Hard Promises, I have another question: Is there any consensus and/or views on whether or not the UK original vinyls (that differ in cover art from the US prints) are any different also from a sound angle from the US originals? And how about the CD versions in that respect? I've sometimes tried to compare my own copies, and I may find a slightly better dynamics in the UK first print actually.. The CDs, I'm not sure I hear much difference at all there. Would be interesting to know what the general view on this might be. --- *Let's not forget how Dylan released a "remaster" - and "much improved" - CD version of his then almost brand new studio release "Love & Theft" in 2003. Made me think, "Wow.. they couldn't make it right the first time?! It was like just yesterday, man..!)

Well put!

beautiful, beautiful world.. now this is how you run a radio station!!

^Glad you discovered it! Great one! Now if only there were some more jamming in it....

That CC Rider above is so fantastic!! Animals what else? Love it, thanks!

^ Ok, thanks for expanding on this. Appreciate it. Sorry if my prev post was a bit cluttered.. I don't mean to sound daft here, but the answer to my question then is, YES? There is earlier CD prints of the Shelter albums than the 1991 versions? I did not know this. Always guessed it was the other way around, that the "plain" disc was of newer date and less great sounding. (Not that the GG versions sound great, but still. I thought they were the originals, and I know I don't like the later remasters much.) All this is mostly rhetorics, since I am no completist in that sense. (An outsider having a look at my TP collection may think that I am, I'm sure.). Still, you seem to suggest that indeed their are earlier (80s??) versions of these CDs. I guess that means that if I should someday upgrade my back-up CD collection in order to get the best sounding discs (given I won't find Japanese original CDs, that is) this is absolutely crucial information. I probably won't, but nevertheless this is interesting news to me, since it changes and upgrades my understanding of the discography. Something I'm always eager to bit by bit get as complete and correct as possible. As you can tell, I might be more interested in that angle than the actual resolution mathematics So, again thanks! And I hear you when it comes to Pono and Hi Res. Not big on "files" myself - at least not yet, but that may change in the future. I've heard it, of course and on a great equipment it sure sounds sweet.* Finally, with regards to Japan, to CDs and vinyls, it so far sounds like you confirm my views. Will be nice to see what's up with the upcoming albums in this regard. If there are further "surprises" to be revealed. ----- * Further ponderings w/r/t ultra mega special giganormous dimensions of the latest hype in sound: They never run out of formats to sell the old goods in, do they? To hear what they hear in the studio, always struck me as a slightly nasty argument. Seems thrilling and awesome in every way, of course! Only, most people, me included (despite an arguably great sound system) don't have quite the room, the setup nor the equipment to make that intense live studio experience fully wholesome anyway. Analogy: one could, for example hook up the best turn table, with the best pristine vinyl on it (or simply play a hi res file) through a tiny travel size pad speaker and the sound would be.. like everything most people listen to all day these days.. crap, that is. Unless you have some serious pro equipment, it's hard to reach much higher than a full range great sounding original vinyl - at least in my experience. Perhaps that's why most people can't tell the difference between good and great when it comes to sound. After all - a majority of people and music lovers these days actually seem satisfied with a CD or FLAC, not to mention the masses that are ok with current streaming standards or mp3s. And also worth pondering.. for all the great sound in the studio.. let's not forget TP is the one famed to have run out in the studio parking lot with a cassette tape copy of the mixes, just to play it in the car stereo to put it to the test and get the "real" experience.

Ok, so we're rolling. Great! In line with the old catch phrase "I think I'm turning Japanese", there's no denying they know a good sound over there, or that they simply does not tolerate as much of other distractions getting in their way of achieving it. (Ok, I don't know the various details of the loudness wars either, as far as who's to blame and such, but the Japanese, to me, seems to be more at peace with it, so to speak.) Indeed - many of my best sounding vinyls (and a few compacts) indeed are Japan prints! Unfortunately.. off the top of my head, I think I have next to none TP print of the kind. That said, moving on to what you got here, ET. Shelter seems like a good place to start too.. As far as the early album CD prints go, am I wrong to remember it like this: There really wasn't any CDs of the Shelter albums until the MCA, riding on the success of the Jeff Lynne era albums, had them sub licensed and released under the moniker "Gone Gator Records" in 1991? (The release of which CDs was marked by the 5 track s.c. "CD single", promotional only "Gone Gator Sampler".) At least this is how it seems from a European perspective. But since said promo only CD always been seen (as far as I can tell) as a US manufactured disc, I thought this was the premiere release on CD for the two Shelter albums, both in EU and US. Anyway... what am I getting at here? Well.. Was there any US CD prints made prior to these 1991 versions that I always took to be the "original" CD versions? (If there was, I really have to go hunting now..) Either way.. how do these 1991, supposed first European, CD versions compete with the first US versions, of the same or earlier date (and/or the Japanese YGGI CD version mentioned - what date is that then??) and how does it compare to later CD versions? Good, I take it from what you say above. Further.. I suppose you could tell the old prints of these two albums from later ones by the Gator logo that are printed on the first issue discs and back cover, but what about the sound? Is what you say a general (same old) truth about Japan against the world, or is there any difference between US and Europe MCA prints in this respect? I myself have the German made (I think) first European CD prints of both the Shelter albums (as a side to my US original first print vinyl issues) and I have the supposedly US made Sampler mentioned, and I can tell none too obvious difference between them (although I can tell plenty difference between both of them and the old vinyls, of course). It's interesting, there is a slight vocals-buried-in-the-mix problem here, but am I to read you as saying that the Japanese original YGGI CD is actually better than the Shelter first US vinyl print too? (The latter IMO is at least noticeably better sounding than lim ed. remaster vinyls that are supposed to be so awesome - and the same goes for comparing the debut LP first US print to recent "audiophile" vinyls, if you happen to wonder ). -- Also, there are no superior Japanese CD version of the debut album? Questions.. Thanks for any insight or opinions. Always fun to ponder.

^Actually me too! And I just recently found this too.. a video to go with one of the most under rated live LPs ever.

Welcome to the Farm, E.T! Always nice to see a fellow fan finding his way home..! I look forward to that. No audiophile per se myself, and generally trust my ears over numbers and tech, but the giant pile of records here have taught me versions sure sound so different from each other. I mainly stick to first print vinyls myself and tend to end up close to the "better" end of the spectrum sound wise (supposedly). But nevertheless, the catalogue is so full of obscure prints and versions and besides, I always find a good summary or break down of any TP-related information both useful and a fun read. Everything that adds to the great - if certainly underdeveloped and underexplored in terms of discography information, session info and so on - treasure of TP music is welcome. Bring it on! I look forward to learn a thing or two, as is often the case around here.

Yeah, TF.. that is some great reasoning. No doubt. It's a point long since taken, IMO. Still, nothing will prevent me from both agreeing with what you say AND failing to get my head around the totality of Mojo. TP is great, the greatest, but that to me is not a religious stand. I think my take is well known from my reasoning (or lack of) over the years, but still. It may be worth saying: at the end of the day I have done my homework, and then some, with this music - there are tons and tons of benefits of doubts all over the place, if not quite as many tons as there are TP records - and to me cherishing an album "as it is" or re-cutting it to my private likings, to maximize it, is really not a debate concerning "better than the artist" or not, it's rather just a matter of "better for me". And it comes after a lot of exposure, I assure you. A lot of consideration and deeply felt sense of the parts, of the whole and of the parts inside the whole (and just about every vague shadow within that silly way of phrasing it). Perhaps it's easiest summed up by the old saying about how, perhaps, sometimes all that glitter isn't gold, especially not all that stinks and smells. Strange as it seem, this rule apply to TP as much as anybody, no matter how much above the rest I hold him in general. Sometimes these things change over time, mind you. Music is very organic to me. Lot of things do shine in time. Sometimes glitter fade too, but rarely. But in a few cases there seem to be a sort of definite void, or rather it's mostly a bump admittedly, and to me that is not the least problematic. Sometimes there seems to be an absolute quality or dimension and more rarely said things are lacking. Just like there are circles in hell, there are circle of genius, and few, if any, travel the circle of the total flawless eternal bliss. Not even Bob. (Actually.. right now, I can't think of anyone who never made a mistake. But then again, to me this is entertainment - ok, it's highly soulful, heartfelt and borderline scientific but it's still entertainment rather than religion, right?) Given that speaking of individual songs is one thing and the total experience of an album is another, my understanding is that both deserve that benefit of a doubt that you mention. It's a known fact that albums too tend to grow or develop over time. And since albums (or Mojo, specifically) is what is discussed here, I think I will have to once again redeem myself, by saying that I might not end up loving or praising all TP decisions being made in terms of sequencing or even production (the artist's pride has nothing much to do with these things to me - thank goodness, considering how proud even bad artists are and how bonkers certain pride has made this planet in general, right?). But I do respect the work and I love TP's heart in certain matters, even in the cases where I personally prefer the listening experience slightly altered. Even his "worst" to me is rather charming, but his best also sets a standard that takes a lot of above-average work to level, a task he himself, if very rarely so, falls a tiny bit short of. No wonder. I'm not upset. Besides. Given the logic of the song and the album being different entities, sometimes it's a great (or at least good) song that helps messing up the album - case in point Saving Grave on HC. Good song, but not in line with the rest of the album and even less suited as an opener. So this thing about rethinking albums, does not always mean bashing songs, more often than not -at least to me- it's about rethinking the vibe, the mix and/or lifting songs that TP himself scrapped. Speaking of giving things a benefit of a doubt. (Grumpy Old Men of the Muppets heard in the control room of the making of this post: "Yeah so, this crappy aweful outtake is really not that crappy.. it actually reveals this bundle of songs for me in quite a new way..! In fact, I love it! It's my favorite song of all time!!" "Or this one here.. it's a masterpiece! How could it have been deleted from the Playback set for the sake of Moon Pie??" "Wait what, Moon Pie is my favorite song of all time too!!!") Anyway. Over the rather vast and glorious catalogue of TP albums - where indeed most of them beat most other artist's albums - I'm still stuck with this unholy dissatisfaction of mine (concerning the total end product) in only two (2 !) clear cases (that is Mojo and Southern Accents) and perhaps the odd borderline case or two, depending of further dimensions discussed. Only one of which - although, given the vaulted material that may or may not exist in other cases and given that several perfectly great albums would've been interesting and fun to hear revisited, anyway - only one of them could easily be imagined within the frames of what is officially released. And that one happen to be the long and winding Mojo. The best of examples, as I have said. As always, more or less all TP albums are packed to the rim with great songs, but that is not the same thing as all of them being totally flawless albums in the full sense of the word (although, I'd say he more or less nailed it on at least five or six occasions - maybe I am religious after all!! ). I do say these things a lot, seemingly, and I'm not sure most of Farmers or Lurkers understand the distinction between good songs or good albums (or between artists' success rate at fulfilling the intentions and the listeners' success rate at getting the message and loving it too) or if they even care for it. Nevertheless, it does explain where I come from and why I sometimes chose to play along in such here humorous ventures. Btw. Side of main point, but still: Candy is a perfectly fun and good bar band song, IMO. I'm in no doubt that you guys have a lot of fun and that you sound awesome playing it! Only thing, to me it's quite subpar to TP's high average album standard, for one thing. For another, it ends up on an already long and "disjointed" album, that already has focus problems in the midst of many great songs. It could do well as a b-side, by all means. Same goes for Don't Pull Me Over. And on a good day (for me), TP can come up with a sequencing that doesn't have to bother with the likes of Takin' My Time either. Again.. these to me are not great songs.. but they are good. But good songs is one thing and a good album is another. Not to mention a GREAT album, an album worthy of the likes of First Flash of Freedom, Trip to Pirate's Cove and Good Enough, just to mention a few. My $ 0.002.

That part of your post could've been a transcript of my feelings on this issue, to the point. I too was hoping to make this work, but have come to the conclusion it won't. Sadly. Not sure the two weeks would make a difference to me, but still.. on the one hand a good head notice would've helped, on the other hand it's kinda cool how they make it look like (and perhaps for some small part really do) play it by ear. It's mixed feelings, but alas.. I'm a no-show for this little tour. Cross my fingers this is not a new standard for me.. Will be incredible exciting to follow it all from a distance though, and I already look forward to great recordings and videos. Exciting times!

^ I think he's got a point though.

Thank you! Awesome. Didn't have this one. Love it!

Everybody knows my take. If not on the song per se, then on the issue of setlists.. (and here a majority of farmers scrolls quickly away from this post.. ) As it happens I love the song! I think few songs, if any, deserves to be played in a Mudcrutch set as much as does Crystal River. I don't know about it being so much more of a "signature tune" than some of the others, but it sure seems to be a song of a certain.. say gravity, in their repertoire. Given that Mudcrutch - when they hit their opening live chord this May - ride on the back of two albums that contains more or less exactly 21 original songs (or 25 songs all in all), I don't see why most of these songs - optimally all of them and then some - would not get played a few times over the course of the tour. That is even more so given the somewhat more informal, tighter and intimate surroundings of this band and this tour. But back to reality. Given the unlikelihood that these guys (read: TP) feel like playing songs they haven't rehearsed to some length, and given that they haven't had oceans of time between their other/main gigs to do that, the most likely scenario of course is a fixed set of some 15 songs (including a few covers) with two or three additional choices (including covers) that may be rotated in case of inspiration or emergency. The democratic all-for-one concept that seems to prevail on the upcoming album, run through a what-they-did-on-stage-last-time filter, seems to suggest that MC, BT, Randall and Tom2 all will have their steady slot in the set too. And a wild guess is that Trailer will be one of the fixed TP pieces. Further - although they don't really have to expand into covers territory this time (save perhaps for covers they cut in studio for the first album), the way they did in 2008 with the likes of Eddie Cochran, Bob Dylan and Jerry Lee Lewis, I certainly hope that they will treat the crowd to a set that, no matter how varied and or a-changing it will be, will contain a cool unreleased cover or two - because this they do very well, IMO. ( Personally, I wouldn't mind if they let go a bit of Dylan though and went further down the Byrds or Grateful Dead route. Or perhaps some classic country, psych or gritty swamp rock. I could hear them take on Loretta Lynn's Fist City, for example.) That's all just ponderings. I'm sure we'll see soon enough. And I'm sure it will be good. And.. I'm pretty sure Crystal River will get to flow accordingly. Anything else would be the wrong thing to do!! (pun, right?!) That is true. Still, my calculations suggest that there will be room for up to four 20 minutes long songs. If the in-between banters are kept to a minimum, that is.....

Me too can't wait. This is the best news I had in quite a while. Good to know it will be out in time for the live-dates. (Anything else would've been mad.) And I really like the artwork. Not sure about the style and placement of the "2", but that's really minor. As for the title of the songs.. time will tell, but something tells me TP did not write titles like I Forgive it All, Welcome to Hell or Save Your Water, but who knows. I find it both cool and somewhat worrysome if indeed they all gonna sing and or write; while I love 98,9% of TP writing and know MC and BT can write decent songs (or even really great ones), I know from experience I'm not floored by Tom 2 and have no idea about Randall on that account. As for the singing, I suspect I'm generally very much in favor for TP, but time will tell.. it could be absolutely awesome. I love the idea of this album and really look forward to fetch the vinyl issue and just start loving it? Because loving it I will, right?

Wow.. here I've been over and out for a few days and suddenly it all happens! How exciting to finally hear first taste of this much awaited new album. And if I should try to trailer park first impressions? It's really cool that it turned out to be THAT Trailer. At first I thought the tempo too slow, but it turns out - after not even five listens - that this new rendition, to me is quite superior. Very cool and quite a bit heavier and more mature, imo. Fun to hear it come back alive this way. Not sure I am thrilled about the slightly echo:ed vocals (or is it just my speakers playing tricks on me? - if not, I hope it won't be too much of the kind on the album) but otherwise I really love the new treatment; the sound, the phrasing. Very very cool! So glad they did it! It seems to me we have reason to believe this album to show the Mudcrutch vibe and integrity very much intact. I could stand a wee bit more grit, but.. hey, let's not be petty.. (pun optional) This is great!! (From another point of view, the logic of releasing a RSD vinyl special release for streaming, weeks ahead of RSD (or at all, for that matter) could be discussed. As could the fact that they choosen Trailer for single - which they did the moment they premiered it on Spotify and Itunes, regardless of RSD) - and what it may imply in terms of the unreleased stuff (that is, the stuff newly penned and/or not released in the past). A 1985 TPATH revisit is what they (someone at the office?) think is the most "hit" song of the album? Or am I over thinking it?) Anyway.. I really love this version and really look forward to hearing the rest of this lot. TP and gang at their best? Likely, if you ask me.

That is great! Never seen it either. Kinda likes a second "I Won't Back Down" video, there. Supposedly from a 1990 Lennon tribute, so it's right in the neighborhood timewise. Sometimes I wonder why they didn't top the Traveling Wilburys off with Ringo while everybody was messing around anyway. Maybe they felt half the Beatles was one too many? Nevertheless, always fun to see them doing these things! Thanks

^ Wait what.. Do you mean to say that HCC members no longer access BT..? And thus an already hard tested and endured species takes another blow... I was under the impression that such access was one of the selling points - together with various questionable swag - with the club. Given that fetching concert tickets is as easy (if not easier, if you sleep around, so to speak) from the outside and that the other main selling point been long since ripped - that is various admittedly cool "exclusives" time and time again have proved to be as none exclusive as any definition could cover - BT was the last quality case to the whole pitch, no? Being one of the cats to leave this particular ship fairly early, having smelled a rat and witnessed some not cool operation procedures, I am no stranger to what crummy and cheap creatures TP allow to wag his name and to charge a fee for the mockery. Still, I must say.. it's a shame how they keep undercutting the concept of a fan club and the brand of TP in general with these endless runarounds. I feel for you, Bob, and all the other good people in the HCC. And like you say.. we have all the more reason to be very grateful for the fantastic and friendly (friendly to both band and fans that is) arena that we are offered by the likes of Marion and Ryan. (Note how no shadow shall fall on the band. Not only do I doubt that they have much say in how this "customer relation" [what else has it become?] ship is being maneuvered, being essentially guns for hire in that respect. Even: to the extent that they have contributed material to HCC, like MC's fantastic guitar video series for example, that is, to my knowledge one of the few, if not only, things that still remains intact in terms of integrity and actual e-x-c-l-u-s-i-v-e-n-e-s-s. I don't know these things, but I guess he has some kinda "rights" involved in that one and that is the reason we haven't already seen the TP&TH office hock it high and wide. Not that I wouldn't buy such DVD or click the Youtube button of course [first of all it may be said to have run its course as an exclusive in that sense, second of all I don't know if it's still even available over there, and third.. as been discussed elsewhere, I am much in favor of bands releasing their stuff on a general level in a general format]... But here I am discussing principles, honesty, consequences, accordance and how it all seem to compute rather badly, when seen from the perspective of a paying club member, or in some cases an ordinary fan.) Rant over. May TP not lock himself forever behind the lush golden gates of Sirius, so that us poor bastards get to pay whatever money we can rattle together to see and hear him too. Rock'n'roll used to be a lot more simple and groovy than all these brands... sigh..

Well.. it speaks something, alright.. Question is what.

Another giant done gone...... RIP.

Yes. My sentiment exactly. At least a week or two before them hitting the stage would be... "nice". I've been leaning towards such hopes myself lately. I can hear it work. Such an underrated song to begin with. All the more so considering the production values on even the best of songs in 1985; some wonders can be done to this stuff, I'm sure. Besides, it would be a pretty nice way to pull of a Mudcrutch-do-Heartbreakers kind of thing, if so. Leveling the song status from b-side to a-side in the process. There would be a certain sense of "finally!" to that, so I wouldn't mind. And as far as covers go, I can also hear them dust off Cracking Up (covered on record by TPHB, also in 1985) or - as someone already had the great imagination to mention - a brushed up Louisiana Rain. At least in a live setting, moves like that would be absolutely incredible!! (Sidenote: If Trailer, on the other hand, is a new song, then, with U Get Me High in recent memory, are we to worry that the TP well of new ideas and imageries are narrowing? I mean with a "You Get Me High 2" and a "Trailer 2" on the repertoire - and even some playful reuse of lyrics in the former - am I to be certain I won't eventually get to hear"I Won't Back Further Down" or "Running Down a Nitemare".. Or perhaps a 2 Good 2 B True 2... ?! ) Why? I think it's brilliant! What any trailer person would do.

^ Ha! What's the hook......?? 1) Yeah, don't it even say somewhere the songs are taken from the forthcoming "Mudcrutch 2" ? Can't find it now, but that's how I read it.. Too bad for such a special occasion, but still -- man, this will be awesome!! 3) Yeah, Interesting, right.. I figure that if they have revisited the 1985 song - which would be cool idea in a way - would they make that the lead off single?? One would think not. On the other hand, perhaps RSD is more of a special event and mostly for fun and it's not suppose to be the "hit" in that sense - it is "limited" after all. On the third hand.. aren't all vinyl 7" singles more or less "limited these days?? 5000 copies is, for a single by a band like Mudcrutch, not that few.. probably won't have it sell out within minutes..... So.. it's hard to tell how the strategies work here. We'll see, and I'm sure it will be cool either way. 4) -- > I am also curious about the wording "later this year" (wrt the album). With RSD in April and live dates starting in May.. well..? Are they gonna "tour" (play festivals) on the back of just a RSD single, to have the album released "later this year" (what? summer? fall?). Or are they just trying to insult our intelligence by referring to the less than dubious fact that May comes "later" than April?? And if the latter - it's gonna be out in May but no date is still official enough to spell out?? As always, I'm amazed. Seemingly, my patience with these market people are getting stretched beyond what's healthy when it comes to TP.. (don't make me make a list..!) Anyway. I love the fact that they decided to make a vinyl single. Thus, taking my cue from TP himself in a statement from more than a year ago.. I now very much look forward to the "near future".