Shelter

Ooh.. controversy... Things really DO start cooking a bit...

I miss Howie Klein!

Other than thinking Bob was spot on to tell Mickey Jones to "Play f**king loud!" on stage, back in 66 - which of course was all about encouragement, anyway - I'd say stay away from instructing people too much, unless they ask you to. Nurk/Fest, if I may, is quite right and I have similar experiences too. Not that I can "teach" anyone anything anyway, being just a rhythm guitar player. But still. If you play with the right people, they'll make the right noise.

At least I suppose the theory works in reverse... That is, I'd say that, since the port of entry - if you actually enter - will always hold a somewhat special place to you, simply because it's your point of discovery, it's not likely to end up your least favorite. After all, sometimes there are a virtual goldmine to be found once you start explore, there might even be new worlds and new highs. Other times there are more of an equal charm that caught you in the first place. Yet other times, there's not much there to level the premiere experience and it will indeed keep it's position on top. But I suppose all I can say is that even if your first love doesn't always remain your most pure and passionate - rarely, if indeed ever, does it end up being a complete throw away. Although, I guess even that could happen.

Just a random thought, really. Just that.. Truth exists, no matter what the top percentile tries to tell you. And an ugly truth it is, too.

You guys are lucky. Paul is a great man. Obviously with a great music ear. But perhaps as important - with a sense of humour. From what I gather.

Well.. I'm sorry. Let's just say that if I could help you, I would. But I'm afraid that's just not where our society is these days. Ironically, exactly that is key to the book. And, I suppose.. after all... just look who's president in the US right now. Now what does that tell you about the state of basic math? People just don't believe in it. That's about all I can tell you. Truth is not in fashion.

And.. did you still need him, did you still feed him? And did he sign something in return?

Ok, anyway... some more: http://www.947wls.com/2018/06/18/mick-fleetwood-hints-new-music-might-be-coming-from-fleetwood-mac/ So, for the people speculating if Mick and Neil will have stuff in the FM set now... "Fleetwood also said that Campbell and Finn’s music would also be incorporated into the Mac setlists." There you have it! Depending on what that actually means, this could be great news.

When he was 64.. was it?

^ Indeed. Of course also at Rockpalast, 77... with visuals.

Oh, and how come this one is not in this thread yet? https://www.someecards.com/news/special-messages/most-absurd-warnings-and-product-disclaimers/ Today's lesson: If you lick a brush you must buy it!

The more I see and hear that ^ the more great it is! If you missed it - repent! On a more inky note.... today I found this. Some people do carry Tom with them, most literally. .. https://www.needsomefun.net/18-amazing-tom-petty-tattoos/

Haha!! Yeah.. bizarro chronology that is quite awesome.

No. It was a book on math. Very simple math. But math that will make you cringe. I had nothing to with it, I'm sorry to say.

"Mama's got a chat box. Daddy never sleeps at night"

"He's the hairy handed gent who ran amok in Kent" Warren Zevon/Werewolves in London

So I just read the greatest book! Unfortunately I can't tell you the title nor the author, since I don't want to offend anyone.

RedfordCowboy: Nice new avatar! And good reasoning! Well put. ( Your post appeared when I looked away from my typing for a cup of coffee, apparently.)

Certainly a weird idea. Again, to me the idea that the whole creative process and writing changed so dramatically, is not productive. As always, the devil is in the details, and there might be traces, sure. But really, that's not where I'd put my focus. What I do think changed, though - apart from the obviously troublesome state of personal relations - is Tom's idea of how he wanted his records - all type songs - to s-o-u-n-d. And in t-h-a-t picture, Stan didn't seem like the best fit. Either. Stan was not unaware of this, of course, and that probably didn't help him feel more inspired and involved. No - I'm sure the personal animosity became too much by 93/94. By all means. But I'm also positive that Stan not having anything substantial to do in the band (outside of the stage) since 1987:ish, must have contributed to the situation.

Glad you liked it! Sure, why not. Sometimes these aestetics we talk about may be mostly due to production though, while other times it's more in the song DNA itself. Like I said, I agree time saw a change in both those departments on Tom's records, but while these "new" ideals in drum production/arrangements started to walk in line, so to speak on ITGWO and was all up and running boom-smack by Wildflowers, moving on, Tom always kept writing the occasional song, that IMO could've have worked as well, or better, with more of an "organic" Stan treatment. It's not that he became a totally different kinda songwriter, just cause he grew into a new passion for how he wanted his drums.

^ That is an apt observation! And believe it or not, it has been discussed before. Probably with no general consensus. 😁 Personally - and I will repeat myself here - I still think it's a combination of chemistry and musical directions that finally lead to the parting of ways between Tom and Stan. It's not just the turmoil. Although I know it's been said a lot, personally I never saw Wildflowers as a sudden flip of a switch, though. I think it's a much slower process, starting (at least as early as) when Tom was familiarizing himself with the Jeff Lynne universe. That is, a drummer needs to be damn good, but he doesn't necessarily be alive. I am sure this was merely icing on an aldready pretty over-baked cake, in terms of the Tom vs Stan relationship, but I do think Tom really was starting to look for something else in his drum sound around this time, as well. Then, of course, this may not have been a totally concious decision, nor a very swift one. To the extent it was a concious descion at all, rather than a -it-just-happened kinda process, it probably took a few years to sink in. It may have been set in motion by Wildflowers, but it wasn't until at least Echo or Last DJ, I say, that it seemed obvious that this really was a whole new ideology for Tom, in terms of how he wanted his drums to be. Or rather how he wanted them not to be, to be more precise. Either way, these things are always hindsight constructions to some extent. I suppose that Grohl was mentioned - and apparently did play at least briefly with TPATH, for SNL 94 and what not - is a great proof that Stan's qualities was likely not sceduled to become obsolete, for Tom. I mean, it's not that Tom was looking for an excuse to kick Stan out, just so that he could explore his new grand drum design. I think it's rather the other way around - he was changing his ideas about the sound in his Lynne period, shall we call it, but when given the chance to set something more longterm up, when Stan left/was outsted, he didn't exactly hit the ground running. There was, Dave Grohl lurking, himself a bit "left hanging" in 1994, let's not forget. Then there was Curt Bisquera too... another one with at least mild temper fits in his drum approach, in a way that would suggest business as usual, for Tom, at least to some extent. Then, among other revelations of the Wildflowers sessions, Steve and Tom seems to have hit it off, so to speak. The musical coming of age that Tom perhaps went through during this time, his developing taste for backdrop time keeping drums only, and the more soft spoken personal qualities of this used-to-be-a-don't-ask-questions-session-guy character of Steve's made for a beautiful matchs, I'd say. Again, music + chemistry. The search was over. That said, I suppose it's impossible to know how serious Tom was about having Dave in the band officially. Many things suggest to me that perhaps it was rather a coincindental happening how that came up - what with Kurt Cobain ending his life, and Nirvana's, Tom needing a drummer, the two of them hitting it off as pals and so on - than a serious idea of him replacing Stan with him. Steve was not available for that gig supposedly, and Dave did seem like a wonderful fit at the time though, I remember thinking. Although, as soon as it stood clear, later on, what Tom wanted out of his new music, it always struck me as having Dave on SNL with them served two purposes: 1) it was a nice, young, fresh and hyper-energic way to present the mature and in parts rather somber Wildflowers album (ironic almost, considering the wild and frantic of Honey Bee) and 2) it was a mean middle finger to Stan, suggesting that having him out of the band did supposedly have nothing to do with Tom developing new ideals musically. Incredible feat to combine those two messages and who else but Dave Grohl, could've served such dual purposes. I don't know, I guess what I'm saying is that even if it turned out that Steve was what Tom wanted, apparently Tom wasn't quite sure himself as early as 1994. In fact.. the drummer spot was - if not in reality - officially "vacant" for quite some time even after he probably knew.. It wasn't as easy to officially replace Stan as a Heartbreakers, as it had been with Ron/Howie in 1982. For this, there may be, as these ponderings and many others may show, many reasons, and I don't think we'll know for sure. But to me it seems obvious that there were new ideas and new ideals to Tom's music - that Grohl's style of drumming was not gonna be a long-term serious option to Tom, and that Steve - in terms of studio recordings and in terms of personal chemistry - turned out to be the perfect match for Tom in the late 90s to late 00s.

Ok. With a mind like mine, I know it's a gamble.. but I'm trying my luck in this thread again... with this piece. News, right? https://variety.com/2018/music/news/fleetwood-mac-iheartradio-music-festival-lineup-1202842261/

Oh, that is all good, I'm sure. No debate needed, I hope. I wasn't quite tapped in either, so... Besides, Tom is partially of Native American ancestry himself, so he would know where to draw the line in this particular case. All I know is that someone, somewhere must've "shot out the light."