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Shelter

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Posts posted by Shelter

  5. Posted · Report reply

    4 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

     Fair enough. You are one of the most eloquent people on here and can be counted on for intelligent well thought out posts

    Thank you for saying so! Very kind! Coming from one of the most prolific posters to pass through over the years, that is some praise. Glad you appreciate whatever efforts been made, whatever dimensions and depths found.

    I wasn't exactly implying an exit. That post was just a half-joking way to say that some gold people post here is really wasted. But, yeah, I've had a growing sense of playing the part of Don Quixote, lately. The somewhat "lynchian" quality to things (speaking of)  should suit me well, one may think, but something seem to be missing... we'll see. I may still have things to add, that interest not just me but also others. And vice versa, for that matter.

  6. Posted · Report reply

    4 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

    so instead of him telling a tale, he sort of tells one, then obscures it with layers and layers of events, surreal moments and nightmarish intensity with slow pacing

    Removing the strings indeed. Something like that. Removing Mike, even. Leaving the general outline of a guitar body only - a symbol, as it were - to replace the full experience.... That, to me, is the type of story telling people seem to prefer. "Ah, it's a guitar! Nice touch!"

    Personally, I don't sense the difference between the "tales" mentioned. I think the common misunderstanding here is a about what level of the "telling" carries the real "story". The real story, as far as I'm concerned, really is not where most people been taught to look for it. That's why you may think it's not there. 

    4 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

    you didn't answer my question, did you see Season 3? What did you think of it?

    Sorry. Yes. I did. I found it absolitely brilliant. Unsurpassed, really, in terms of television. The "3" really being beside the point. Aside from some obvious references to the old ground breaking series, the latest instalment is its own entity entirely! Pure genius.

  9. Posted · Report reply

    On 7/12/2018 at 11:00 AM, Shelter said:

    Did anyone ever noticed how the voice on the telephone, towards the end in Roger McGuinn's 1991 song "Car Phone", is actually Sheriff's Department secretary Lucy Moran, from Twin Peaks? (Kimmy Robertson)

    "Really? You don't say? "

    So, no one never noticed..

    I think that really does it for me then....

  11. Posted · Report reply

    7 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

    Speaking of raw and pure, Meg White of the White Stripes is a perfect example. Over and over Jack White has said the band wouldn't have worked with anyone else.

    Ah. Yes. Of a band with a VERY integrated, dynamic (and heavy!) drummer that really PLAYS, with temper too (as opposed to merely keeping time as a backdrop) MW is a great example, indeed. One of the best since LZ's Bonham, imo. (Besides: that JW fits the bill on the string side of the equation - beautifully managing to play the equivalent of bass, rhythm, riffs and rather.. tribal solos.. all at the same time, does add to the wonder that is early era White Stripes. One of the best bands and mindsets ever in modern rock, imo. Two people that sound like a perfectly tight 4 man outfit.)

    In a somewhat limp (if to some extent credible, in a simplified way) analogy, though.. WS would be more on the Stan side of things, I'd say. Pure and raw would be obvious qualities.

    What I meant above, though, was to stress that even if I may prefer Stan's approach - what it brings to the songs and to the band vibe, musically - there are also examples of music that transmit the "raw and pure" DESPITE machine like, or even totally synthetic/programmed qualities. Just to underline that this drummer thing, to me is not black or white, that there is no right or wrong. Basically, the mention of disco had my mind wander... Just my minor addition this time, to this latest round of discussing these issues.

  12. Posted · Report reply

    12 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

    But maybe I'm overthinking things here.

    Not much though. 😁 

    Personally I never felt any disco dimension to Tom - he always been a rock n roll to the bone kinda guy to me, if tinted in various sub genre hues at times, not to mention TPATH pretty early on sorta invented their own brand rnr, their own trademark noise. But in terms of the technical approach to arrangements, Tom's rhythm section preferences - that is the mid career decision to take Jeff's lead and change to a decisively more clinical time keeping only backdrop - modern pop/dance oriented genres and even machine created beats/drums aesthetic DO come to mind at times. Drums as not supposed to serve the song in any more fancy way than being the foundation. The mathematical core to drive it but preferably unnoticeable so. (Note: this is not a bad thing by definition. There are examples of bands that manage to get to the core of rock'n' roll, keeping it raw and pure, keeping their hips swingin so to speak, by means of totally artificial drummers even.)

    But again, to me this rather interesting "disco" dimension is a drumming only thing, with latter era Tom. I never saw him even glance at Boney M in any other way. Not even on IANTM.

    (For funny and sad reference to this discussion, see clip in A Bunch Of Videos... where Stan is "beating up the old drum machine".)

    Big Blue Sky reacted to this

  14. Posted · Report reply

    Good points!

    Personally, I just like to add the example Southern Accent to all of it. Now, I know it's a very honest song to begin with and Tom's original is fantastic. Still.. and it may come off provocative, when I say I think JC even bettered it, that Cash's is the ultimate version. Like so often, songs gain gravity with Cash.

    Of coutse, I say that as a fairly big fan and collector of his stuff..

  15. Posted · Report reply

    3 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

    Lyrics never really dominate the mood of a song for me.

    Me neither. It just struck me as unusual with such rather specific era markers for being Tom Petty songs. (While "Sonny Liston" et al, are there to mark a certain retro aesthetic and a certain reference to "swingin", for example, or general markers of our times and morals with "Major is cooking the books", or "Shadow People" and so on - the likes of Jerry Fallwell, Eddie Murphy, "country clubs", "tv" and all of it, in the songs mentioned, rather seem to work to mark a sense of here and now in a for Tom rather unusual way, a certain "this is what we have to deal with in our times" matched with a "I don't care" or "Leave me be" attitude. All served so very specifically, which make it feel very "mid 80s" to me, really taking the 80s sound in itself one step further. Not sure I communicate this very effectively, but that was the idea anyway... that IANTM and JM are at least a bit unusual in this sense and seem to stem from a similar place in Tom's mind. I never realised it was such an obscure idea, needing so much explaining.. 😄 But sometimes things go on on a rather metaphysical level here.. haha... and I just threw it our there.

    So, I guess while lyrics never dominates, they sometimes really inform, affect the mood/vibe of the song quite strongly for me.. and Tom usually has a very effective, suggestive poetic way with words, creating moods and vibes, using tiny, unspecific markers to say great things emotionally and poetically... and in the cases mentioned he suddenly went very specific.

  18. Posted · Report reply

    ^ Thank you! I always roam SHF myself for info on certain prints (not often Petty, though, since apart from speculation and private opinions on sound tech details, not much actual Petty insight or facts is usually found there). And, yeah.. those audiophile guys always cracks me up... amazing, passionate bunch of nerds.. like we all are in our ways.. Never noticed Ryan there before though, I think, so that was interesting read.

    Come to think of it, odd as it may seem in the eye of Petty fandom, perhaps SHF is where they take requests for the future 😁 Just kidding. Don't go bug Ryan now, you guys...!!

  20. Posted · Report reply

    2 hours ago, nurktwin said:

    I think the "Deluxe" version was the cheapest available.

    Yeah, they never tried to push the "Unlimited Cheap-@ss Edition", for some reason.

    Seriously, back in the days, "budget" or "edit" prints were a thing for the people with limited funds. These days it's "Deluxe" for the poor and "Star Dust Diamond Ultra Limited Top Shelf VIP Hand Crafted Ecology Super Art Elite Edition" for the rest of us. I can't even spell out the most luxurious versions, but usually they come with a membership or with buying property on the moon.

    Or, in short, I guess it's what they call inflation 😁

  21. Posted · Report reply

    3 hours ago, chimera said:

    I agree in terms of what it could have been, if they'd had their shit together at the time.

    Something like that, yeah! The day I get to hear all of the SA session material, and the day I am able to imagine it all done with a tad more timeless production, is the day I'm ready to pass final judgement on the era.

    Too bad that day will likely never happen, since I have a feeling the 83-85 era may be at least a bit more prolific than it's usually credited for. Whatever bits and pieces we have suggest as much. Them not quite being super stars enough to dictate everything, at the time, slaves under contracts and (frankly) generally busy partying their minds to pieces Dave Stewart style, and lots of other typical mid 80s, 10-years-career reasons, made whatever flow of genius there was, barely recognized and sadly lost in chaotic times. At least that's how I like to understand it.

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  22. Posted · Report reply

    4 hours ago, High Grass Dog said:

    Good point. A big difference between Southern Accents and Wildflowers is the sheer amount of material.

    Simple as that, yeah. Been trying to communicate as much myself recently. 😉

    Btw @ all of you - great discussion in this thread! On and off topic, lots of insight's been offered on subject matters I thought long since talked through and run dry. Kudos to all of you! Very interesting opinions shared!

  23. Posted · Report reply

    On 7/22/2018 at 8:27 PM, jawallac said:

    No clue about the signatures, but the marathon was real. 

    Funny! I'm no expert, certainly, and am not too much into the signings thing in general, but that silvery record there, I would say is the one looking the least as any other of Tom's autographs I've ever had or seen... If I was told one was fake, I'd guess that one. (Or possibly the Mojo one, although I've seen others similarily "sloppy"). But I guess these things happens over time, and depend on situation. I have no idea. They could all be fake, or all authentic, to me.. Interesting!

  24. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, TwoGunslingers said:

    maybe that really is a bit far fetched. 

    Right! I think the SA/WF comparison feels rather constructed. Then again, the way they both had that rather ambitious aim, yet both ended up something else, does make for an interesting similarity after all.

    1 hour ago, TwoGunslingers said:

    Having said that, I don't really know which album in Petty's catalog would be WF's contender for the title of best sounding album.

    Right! There's quite a few "best" ones, imo, depending on mood or aspect. Really tough to chose "the one". But WF has to be one of them, for me.

     

    2 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

     It's just you.

    😁 Ok, the voice of the rest of humanity has spoken.

    I do think you need to listen again, though. Not so much for sound, riffs or melody, but for essence, what sentiments may loom at the back of the mind that created the song. The words "current" and "events" may get you started in the direction of my ponderings here (although, of course that's not exactly where its at either). Not every day Tom wrote songs in such a in your face name-dropping way. (Which serves to show that sound is far from the only thing that makes a song dated....)

    But it's quite alright if it's just me. It often is, and I don't mind the exclusivity. 😄 Just tried to make a decent comparison is all.. not SA/WF, but SA/LMU.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    I don't know how far I would stretch this.. but at least some parallel dimensions are unquestionable, sure. As I see it, the few but distinct similarities between SA and WF lay both in what they are and what they are not.

    They are - grand projects. Ambitious artistic visions, aimed for storytelling archs of sorts, meant to span two discs each. Albums focused in mood and more or less anchored in a concept (being it a lyrical, musical or merely vibe concept).

    They are not - at the end of the day, fully realized the way Tom hoped them to be, the way mentioned above. The big ambitious projects became, after lots of time and work, "normal" albums, as it were. And they faced their fate at that, in somewhat different ways. One with frustration and the other with shine.

    Considering what other artists and bands were up to in 1985, while certainly dated in many ways SA to me sounds solid enough. Must admit. The sound is not the best I can imagine, but it's great in parts. However, in terms of material representing the big idea of a "south" concept album... well, for starting out as a double, I think the single disc track list is surprisingly weak and scattered. I said it elsewhere - the seed of SA carries huge promise, and to me it's one of their best albums that never was. It has two or three moments that rank as genius, core TPATH lore, hinting at such a masterpiece double. But being culled from a project aiming that high, the single disc sure seem full of filler.

    Here WF "does it better". Even as a single disc album it's quite the masterpiece. If anything, it's hard to grasp how two disc with the same 100% quality is even realistic? (Knowing Tom though, it surely is, right?) After all, there might be a reason why, with WF, Tom was very prolific - rising to the challenge of his own ambition, as Chimera so perfectly puts it - and he was more or less "forced" (for various reasons) to limit the album to one disc, while SA supposedly was more of a real struggle, in the end making even one disc was somewhat difficult.

    Also, while SA just barely makes the finish line, the way it plays, feels a bit cut short perhaps, there may be a tendency with WF that it's a bit "stacked", slightly scattered, perhaps carrying one or two songs too many for a tight effective album. But that is due to the curse of the CD age, I suppose, as much as the wealth of material. Perhaps the structure of WF, the disposition, flow, really would've benefited from a 2x12 treatment rather than the bursting disc it became. Of course this depends on what was left off, but I think most evidence points towards multiple ways to organize WF as a stunning double. Still, of course, WF, as is, is an amazing album! If a bit scattered, most none concept albums are, and.. as been pointed out - it may be the best sounding album they ever did. It may.

    (Sidenote: speaking of LMU(IHE) in this context... is it just me, or is It Ain't Nothing To Me kinda like Jammin Me version one, lacking a bit Bob, and a bit edge? Seems like ideas stemming from similar place in Tom's mind and time... Anyways... )

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