Shelter

^ Yeah, well.. I've been around TP boards (and others) long enough to know the score. Some 20 years in, that may be part of the problem.. haha! But thanks for the concern! The "world away", as you so poetically put it, is really my kind of place. Where I keep my focus, always.

Yeah.. me neither. Love LW, but she kinda lost some of the edge, swagger.. or warmth.. or whatever it is she lost.. with age. At the same time she tries too hard here, it seems. Never used to do that. Ben delivers though. Always.

Haha! Certainly! I meant one of the most underrated l, all categories, not only TP. Masterpiece of a song!

Red-winged.. vs Black-top... But, yeah. Couldn't agree more. One of the top 5 most underrated songs ever?

How cheesy....

Thank you for saying so! Very kind! Coming from one of the most prolific posters to pass through over the years, that is some praise. Glad you appreciate whatever efforts been made, whatever dimensions and depths found. I wasn't exactly implying an exit. That post was just a half-joking way to say that some gold people post here is really wasted. But, yeah, I've had a growing sense of playing the part of Don Quixote, lately. The somewhat "lynchian" quality to things (speaking of) should suit me well, one may think, but something seem to be missing... we'll see. I may still have things to add, that interest not just me but also others. And vice versa, for that matter.

Removing the strings indeed. Something like that. Removing Mike, even. Leaving the general outline of a guitar body only - a symbol, as it were - to replace the full experience.... That, to me, is the type of story telling people seem to prefer. "Ah, it's a guitar! Nice touch!" Personally, I don't sense the difference between the "tales" mentioned. I think the common misunderstanding here is a about what level of the "telling" carries the real "story". The real story, as far as I'm concerned, really is not where most people been taught to look for it. That's why you may think it's not there. Sorry. Yes. I did. I found it absolitely brilliant. Unsurpassed, really, in terms of television. The "3" really being beside the point. Aside from some obvious references to the old ground breaking series, the latest instalment is its own entity entirely! Pure genius.

Well. I just try new angles. Got all the old ones covered pretty much. Most of them twice. Fatigue may be a word, yeah.

I think that is the standard misunderstanding. But I don't blame you. And I don't think Lynch does either. He does not exactly make it easy for people. He's quite alone in our times that way.

"Really? You don't say? " So, no one never noticed.. I think that really does it for me then....

I seem to recall a few older threads with a similar approach, floating around. This one could perhals be a start:

Ah. Yes. Of a band with a VERY integrated, dynamic (and heavy!) drummer that really PLAYS, with temper too (as opposed to merely keeping time as a backdrop) MW is a great example, indeed. One of the best since LZ's Bonham, imo. (Besides: that JW fits the bill on the string side of the equation - beautifully managing to play the equivalent of bass, rhythm, riffs and rather.. tribal solos.. all at the same time, does add to the wonder that is early era White Stripes. One of the best bands and mindsets ever in modern rock, imo. Two people that sound like a perfectly tight 4 man outfit.) In a somewhat limp (if to some extent credible, in a simplified way) analogy, though.. WS would be more on the Stan side of things, I'd say. Pure and raw would be obvious qualities. What I meant above, though, was to stress that even if I may prefer Stan's approach - what it brings to the songs and to the band vibe, musically - there are also examples of music that transmit the "raw and pure" DESPITE machine like, or even totally synthetic/programmed qualities. Just to underline that this drummer thing, to me is not black or white, that there is no right or wrong. Basically, the mention of disco had my mind wander... Just my minor addition this time, to this latest round of discussing these issues.

Not much though. 😁 Personally I never felt any disco dimension to Tom - he always been a rock n roll to the bone kinda guy to me, if tinted in various sub genre hues at times, not to mention TPATH pretty early on sorta invented their own brand rnr, their own trademark noise. But in terms of the technical approach to arrangements, Tom's rhythm section preferences - that is the mid career decision to take Jeff's lead and change to a decisively more clinical time keeping only backdrop - modern pop/dance oriented genres and even machine created beats/drums aesthetic DO come to mind at times. Drums as not supposed to serve the song in any more fancy way than being the foundation. The mathematical core to drive it but preferably unnoticeable so. (Note: this is not a bad thing by definition. There are examples of bands that manage to get to the core of rock'n' roll, keeping it raw and pure, keeping their hips swingin so to speak, by means of totally artificial drummers even.) But again, to me this rather interesting "disco" dimension is a drumming only thing, with latter era Tom. I never saw him even glance at Boney M in any other way. Not even on IANTM. (For funny and sad reference to this discussion, see clip in A Bunch Of Videos... where Stan is "beating up the old drum machine".)

Ah, that is great!! Thanks!

Good points! Personally, I just like to add the example Southern Accent to all of it. Now, I know it's a very honest song to begin with and Tom's original is fantastic. Still.. and it may come off provocative, when I say I think JC even bettered it, that Cash's is the ultimate version. Like so often, songs gain gravity with Cash. Of coutse, I say that as a fairly big fan and collector of his stuff..

Me neither. It just struck me as unusual with such rather specific era markers for being Tom Petty songs. (While "Sonny Liston" et al, are there to mark a certain retro aesthetic and a certain reference to "swingin", for example, or general markers of our times and morals with "Major is cooking the books", or "Shadow People" and so on - the likes of Jerry Fallwell, Eddie Murphy, "country clubs", "tv" and all of it, in the songs mentioned, rather seem to work to mark a sense of here and now in a for Tom rather unusual way, a certain "this is what we have to deal with in our times" matched with a "I don't care" or "Leave me be" attitude. All served so very specifically, which make it feel very "mid 80s" to me, really taking the 80s sound in itself one step further. Not sure I communicate this very effectively, but that was the idea anyway... that IANTM and JM are at least a bit unusual in this sense and seem to stem from a similar place in Tom's mind. I never realised it was such an obscure idea, needing so much explaining.. 😄 But sometimes things go on on a rather metaphysical level here.. haha... and I just threw it our there. So, I guess while lyrics never dominates, they sometimes really inform, affect the mood/vibe of the song quite strongly for me.. and Tom usually has a very effective, suggestive poetic way with words, creating moods and vibes, using tiny, unspecific markers to say great things emotionally and poetically... and in the cases mentioned he suddenly went very specific.

^ Not sure what I did...? Use the wrong smiley face? I seriously think it's a good discussion here. Not try to be smart. For once. (Cept for the First Edition reference. That was me, trying to be, well.. maybe not quite smart.)

Just want to add... 92 was absolutely spine tingling fantastic. In case you ever were in doubt.... (Oh, and that includes Stan, as far as I could/can tell.)

^ Thank you! I always roam SHF myself for info on certain prints (not often Petty, though, since apart from speculation and private opinions on sound tech details, not much actual Petty insight or facts is usually found there). And, yeah.. those audiophile guys always cracks me up... amazing, passionate bunch of nerds.. like we all are in our ways.. Never noticed Ryan there before though, I think, so that was interesting read. Come to think of it, odd as it may seem in the eye of Petty fandom, perhaps SHF is where they take requests for the future 😁 Just kidding. Don't go bug Ryan now, you guys...!!

Guys, just dropped in to... see what condition my condition was in... eh.. no.. to say that, here again you guys are really on a roll here! Lots of interesting and entertaining stuff. Good speculation, as it were. 😎 Thanks

Yeah, they never tried to push the "Unlimited Cheap-@ss Edition", for some reason. Seriously, back in the days, "budget" or "edit" prints were a thing for the people with limited funds. These days it's "Deluxe" for the poor and "Star Dust Diamond Ultra Limited Top Shelf VIP Hand Crafted Ecology Super Art Elite Edition" for the rest of us. I can't even spell out the most luxurious versions, but usually they come with a membership or with buying property on the moon. Or, in short, I guess it's what they call inflation 😁

Something like that, yeah! The day I get to hear all of the SA session material, and the day I am able to imagine it all done with a tad more timeless production, is the day I'm ready to pass final judgement on the era. Too bad that day will likely never happen, since I have a feeling the 83-85 era may be at least a bit more prolific than it's usually credited for. Whatever bits and pieces we have suggest as much. Them not quite being super stars enough to dictate everything, at the time, slaves under contracts and (frankly) generally busy partying their minds to pieces Dave Stewart style, and lots of other typical mid 80s, 10-years-career reasons, made whatever flow of genius there was, barely recognized and sadly lost in chaotic times. At least that's how I like to understand it.

Simple as that, yeah. Been trying to communicate as much myself recently. 😉 Btw @ all of you - great discussion in this thread! On and off topic, lots of insight's been offered on subject matters I thought long since talked through and run dry. Kudos to all of you! Very interesting opinions shared!

Funny! I'm no expert, certainly, and am not too much into the signings thing in general, but that silvery record there, I would say is the one looking the least as any other of Tom's autographs I've ever had or seen... If I was told one was fake, I'd guess that one. (Or possibly the Mojo one, although I've seen others similarily "sloppy"). But I guess these things happens over time, and depend on situation. I have no idea. They could all be fake, or all authentic, to me.. Interesting!

Right! I think the SA/WF comparison feels rather constructed. Then again, the way they both had that rather ambitious aim, yet both ended up something else, does make for an interesting similarity after all. Right! There's quite a few "best" ones, imo, depending on mood or aspect. Really tough to chose "the one". But WF has to be one of them, for me. 😁 Ok, the voice of the rest of humanity has spoken. I do think you need to listen again, though. Not so much for sound, riffs or melody, but for essence, what sentiments may loom at the back of the mind that created the song. The words "current" and "events" may get you started in the direction of my ponderings here (although, of course that's not exactly where its at either). Not every day Tom wrote songs in such a in your face name-dropping way. (Which serves to show that sound is far from the only thing that makes a song dated....) But it's quite alright if it's just me. It often is, and I don't mind the exclusivity. 😄 Just tried to make a decent comparison is all.. not SA/WF, but SA/LMU.