Shelter

Empty so far... but I thought this may be a good place to pour your hearts out. Or link to others' labour of love or confusion.

Yes, me too! Just started my second round of listening to the CDs. Comments on songs may come later and/or elsewhere, but I gotta say, with connection to this thread, that they have done some amazing job with mastering/remastering of this stuff. Sounds amazing pretty much throughout! Even the old familiar songs, the way they blend in and show up like old friends along the way, sound really great, whatever's been done to them. Kudos to Ryan, Mike and Ben for being up to the task, as always!

Hm.. yeah.. personally I wonder just how much snow it took to come to the conclusion that "It Ain't Nothing to Me" was a keeper and "Walking from The Fire" had to go? I always had a feeling those infamous Stewart parties of the mid 80s did not exactly help the coming together of the SA sessions. Always suspected there was more to the story, and unless they put the only nugget on display here, I guess this theory caught even more wind just now..

Thank you for the praise. A sudden burst of typing, the old Shelter way. Glad you appreciated the effort, found some sense within. Good to see you back, btw. Been gone fishing, have ya?

Yeah.. and few things on how it went down, songs played and so on.. http://fleetwood-mac.info/2018/09/fleetwood-mac-headlines-iheart-radio-festival/

some art of interest? http://411posters.com/2018/09/tom-petty-an-american-treasure-by-shepard-fairey/

https://www.gainesville.com/news/20180926/swamp-head-to-release-tom-petty-beer

Time to dive in. Women and other people with social skills may excuse my language, but for most part the Stevie Nicks as a Heartbreaker skit, is general bs built for legend and myth. Benefiting both sides, I'm sure. Myself a big fan of Stevie Nicks, I may also need to remind all of you that at the time she was supposedly putting out for a place in the Heartbreakers, she was a much bigger star than was any of the Heartbreakers, inlcuding Tom. Sure, she fell in loved with their music, pehaps a bit with Tom and his charms. And she was, after all invoved withe Iovine at the time - his producer and soon to be hers - something that oftentimes is understated, or even left out, when Stevie's finding and "annex:ing" Tom. It was an enchanted period for both of them, if I may, and she probably loved Tom and his band and his music in many ways when they were separate entities working close together. But really, what would she do, after the glitter faded, so to speak.. No real love thing was in the card, and as a Heartbreaker she would do what? It would do what to Tom's way to write and visualize his music, band chemistry and song writing ambitions... Nah. It was never a real idea. I refuse to think it was. For anyone. Further, I think that Stevie's way to say how cool TP&TH were, how great they were, their music - always genuine, I'm sure, of course she dug the Heartbreakers and I'm sure they found both a personal and professional spark during the Iovine sessions for each of their albums, and privately around that time too - that was also a Fleetwood Mac diva positioning herself - when the super success of the mid 70s started to wear off slightly, and when her trying for a solo career was looming - as part of the cool, somewhat edgier and rockier scene that young and energic TP&TH, fresh off Damn The Torpedoes, was part of, and at the same time finding a both proffesional and hot match for some colaboration on her upcoming solo debut. Again, we have Iovine in the background here! Lots of these things may have been accident, but not all of them, surely. Personally, I'm not even sure Stevie ever - THEN - saw herself as wanting to become a Heartbreaker for real. From the start it was a good story to say so, though. It was the perfect proof of love, in terms of tying their brands, stories and personal love for each other closer, to make Stevie stick to Tom in the public eye. I'm not saying she didn't absolutely loved the music or the band vibe, but I don't really think it was ever an idea to join, nor that whatever fling she had with Tom was ever seriously going anywhere. I think the whole match between them was professional enough from the start, so to say. Then, through the years, they been able to return to their professional and personal friendship from time to time, but I think they knew - already in 1980/81 that TP&TH had another sound, another groove and another vibe - not enough gypsy aesthetics to go around - that was just in minor and selective parts fit for Stevie. Had she joined, mind you, the whole vessel would have gone totally elsewhere and I don't think deep down inside neither Tom nor Stevie saw a full time enterprise fitting them both, even then. Trying to picture the cataloge they did produce - after a fact - with Stevie added, is even more impossible, IMO. I guess, also, they both had too much of an ego. Neither of them was made for a full time career splitting the spotlight and main duties of songwriting and singing in half. And again, Stevie Nicks of Fleetwood Mac - she was the bigger star in some ways, when this was supposed to have taken off - would not settle for stopping her writing songs just to spend her years singing live duets on Stop Draggin' My Heart Around and perhaps a few more duet singles down the years, and do the back up to Don't Come Around Here No More for the rest of it. In fact, if there was ever a true deep understanding of the qualities their blended voices and vibes actually DID HAVE, if there was ever anything deeper than that mutual -almost sister/brother personal connection sometimes spoken off - any further urge beyond that lucky creative moment in history when they made magic , then Tom would have revisited it for real somtimes, would he? If he saw even a glance of what I see, and of what Stevie perhaps saw, he would have taken the concept places when he had the opportunity to do so. When Stevie was guesting him on stage, or -like in 2006 - on tour, he was of course obliged to treat the auduence with some Stop Draggin' My Heart Around and some insider. But then what? I can think of many original TPATH songs that would have been great to rework into duets for the occasion - to really make use of her presence! But what did we have, then? Some back up singing and dancing? A sad waste of opportunity, as I see it. And I can fondly picture how Tom & Stevie could have recorded a new song, or even an album with specially written and arranged material at some point down the years. Non of this never - as far as I know - even occured to Tom, wich is a shame. So, basically, I think neither I nor Stevie (let me speak for both of us.. haha!) ever really thought the idea of her as a full time serious Heartbreaker was a good one, although both her and me would have loved to see her work a lot more with Tom. I really think she loved him, that she had a crush on him and would want to work with him a lot more. No doubt about any of that. To Tom, though, I think he was grateful for her friendship and for the success they had, and for whatever their "thing" added to the legend of their career, but I don't think he ever pondered having her in the band - he understood something that is quite important here, namely that nonwithstanding her being a woman, a star in her own right and dancing gypsy a different fit for the HB - she was also t r o u b l e*, and he didn't want none of that truely inside his creation. Not to mention, to his mind no parts were missing. (Not until the evolution of sound and the Lynne era, would there be a need for anyhting more than what they had - and the multiinstrument offered by Scott, was no shoes to fill by Stevie.) The energy, to Tom's mind, would be too strange, given free range, I'm sure. It's way too complicated and unecessary on so many level. Kinda like this post... In short, she might have had a fling. His focus was largely elsewhere in terms of career, but he appriated the friendship and the talent as a peer. They both knew Iovine, closely. And that was it for this legend, I believe. You can't build a 35 years career on that. To have said legend immortalized, making Stevie "Honorary Hearbreaker" was pure genius. They are tied together for eternity, despite not having done that much more than Tom did with say Johnny Cash or Jeff Lynne. ----- * The weird chemistry drama of Fleetwood Mac probably didn't take a turn for the better when Lindsey and Stevie joined. Some say that's what started it. Their legend of being *ssholes. And that is not all Lindsey's fault, may I add. The FM formula, I believe, fits Stevie fairly well, though. But she is way too strong of a presence to be a group person, in general, I believe. She is something as odd as a solo artist type of genius that needs - for a variety of reasons - a group to help her blossom. Not that her solo albums are bad (some of them are among the best albums of the 1900s, actually) but as a rule, she's been increasingly lost in terms of direction, material to fill out the albums and arrangements, production and such since the mid 80s into the 90s, 00s. In many way an unfulfilled promise of genius, some of thorse records are. On the other hand, she shines so brightly in the FM context, only to give some of the spotlight away to the filler quality of other members (generally speaking, not totally correct!). Frankly the best for her - as I see it - would be a band, that toured as a band, was a band and knew each other as a band, that still allowed her to be the bright shining star. In Fleetwood Mac there is too much general competiton and too many directions, in TPATH there was already Tom Petty. (Then again. No more. Sometimes I think Stevie joining Mike, would have been a better ide than him joining her... so to speak. At least I hope the HB back Stevie up on some recording session or live performance, not focusing on Tom then, but on her. That would be awesome.)

Some spiritualist camp that keep closed at night!? That's bad business right there.

I know, hu.. Time for tomato soup, and they can't even spell!

Nah.. It's Good Go Be King, remember?

Happy birthday!

What did you expect hisses and boos?? Not to put words in Redford's mouth here, but you don't suppose he just called out some of the most.. shall we say.. bendable minds around here??

As long as Built 2 Last, 2 Good 2 Be True, 2 Find a Friend, I Fourgive It All and Fourgotten Man do, I can't see why not......

Zero From Outer Space One Story Town Two Gunslinger Walls (#3) Angel Dream (#4) "If 2 is 1, I might as well be 3" (Fooled Again) "a 2 room apartment" (Apartment Song) "a rolled up 20" (Blue Sunday) "I slept for a 1000 years" (Blue Sunday) "DC10, 10:45" (Hurt) "a 1000 amens" (Saving Grace) "over a 1000 dollars in the bank" (Room at The Top) "400 dollars" (Melinda) "Interstate 75" (Spike) "A million miles away" (Dreamville) Square One Two Men Talking......

Not to mention how boring it would be if no one understood Bob?? I mean, seriously, right? He is for our whole pop/rock culture what oxygene is for water. Essential. I mean, you don't have to be a fan of oxygene, but you are gonna n-e-e-d it to be able to live and breath. Or... I mean... you wouldn't take God out of the Bible? As for diciples, Neil is one of the best, surely.

Me too, glad to heart it. People here've been saying some very true and wise stuff. Like Ben would've said.. this is a good place!! That's gotta be the ruling spirit after all.

Yeah. Question is what - if anything - has been added on for this release, or if this is how it was left back in 1998. Because productionwise it sounds fairly finished, to me. A lot of work, like you say, has been put in arrangement and mix. To great effect, too. Many great things to listen for/to. A few very nice turn of lyrics too. Problem really is the compostition, the song structure/melody. I agree. It lacks in luster.. both in hook, attitude and finesse. It strikes me as rather schematic. Like a basic structure that needs a few twists and turns to come alive, fully. With the exception of the first part of the "bridge", that does show some punch and swagger. But again, the sound is great, as is the lyrics. (Both of which made the songs inclusion on Echo a bit of a stretch, as mentioned.) Interesting then, no 1: Free Girl Now being another song that they struggled with. Not only did they, for various reasons, decide to include FGN on Echo, despite it not being quite finished in a vein they were totally happy with, supposedly*, they even made it the run off single. I always had some very similar "objections" about the song structure/melody of FGN as I just vented with regards to Gainesville. That is, that there is something missing in the melody, something that makes it a bit.. gammy?... a bit flat and unbalanced melodically. Something that is made up for to an extent, with that riff and the attitude with which it is delivered. I can see though, how they felt it thematically a good fit on Echo. But again, I also definately hear that they didn't feel quite done with it. And short of making structural changes in the composition, I don't see how they could. Somewhat strange song, musically, must say. And now it turned out the sessions had another one of the kind. Interesting then.. no 2: Let's not forget that Tom also made another - perhaps melodically more successful - attempt at reminicent about the bygone days of youth, going back even further, painted with even sweeter nostalgic hues, in the song Dreamville. One of my favorites, that one. When this Gainesville song showed up as an old side track in listings, my first thought was it was a demo or early version of what was to become Dreamville. I guess though, that having done what he felt he could about Gainesville, Dreamville was really a start-over in terms of songwriting, a whole new song with a very different vibe, but perhaps rooted in the same urge of Tom's to paint a picture of his old Florida life. (Reflection: In the context of Echo, the idyllic Gainesville feels like a lost paradise, a time before life's struggles and strive really had begun, like it does for all of us, a praising of the energy and naivitee of youth. In the context of Last DJ then, Dreamville on the other hand feels like an even more bittersweet paradise, a whole world, era and mindframe lost for all of us, in the face of thoroughly commercialized and greedy times we live in today. In deed, both are places to visit in our dreams.) ----- * To my ears, to this day, FGN is not even as "finished" soundwise, as is Gainesville.

^ Exactly my thoughts, actually. Thank you for speaking my mind..!

Right. Gainesville honors TP. TP honors Gainesville. There is balance in the universe, after all.

Yesterday the whole lot - both the inactive links to the unrleased stuff and the active "2018 Remaster" tracks - was taken off Spotify again. No longer there. Coincidence? Or proof that there really is different sound to these songs that they don't want people to hear until the 28th? What's somewhat extra weird is that this erasing the signs of the new box on Spotify happens just as the new song "Gainesville" premieres at Amazon (of all places). There seem to be various agendas at work simultaneously here. If I didn't know better I would think the HCC was wreaking havoc again, in grand style of bygone days, but they can't possibly have anything to do with this. I guess I'll just sit back and enjoy however this release unfolds.

Just heard the snippet at this time... Hard to tell. I guess to me, what I hear is both promising and a bit not so much. Has this song got a hook? I guess perhaps someone snatched it from TP radio, if it was indeed premiered there. Time will tell. In a week if no sooner. Each and every new note that reveals itself is so exciting, though, isn't it!

Eight Days a Week Eight Miles High Eight days to go....................

Ha! Right! They should've thought of that.. haha

Too late now, but artists who would've wanted to be on that list really should've put a "The" or a "Little" in their names... Little Devo... I wonder... 🙄