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GvilleCharlie

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  1. This probably doesn't answer all the various questions that were posted earlier, but I'll try to cover a few bases for anyone who's still interested. I've worked on this response off and on whenever I've had some time. As usual, please excuse me if I ramble a bit . . . . =8^) But first, a correction or two. In a previous post I talked about the Gainesville Music Festival in 1971 and I said the tickets were $5. Well, I was doing a little housecleaning the other day and came across some more memorabilia including a ticket from the event which I had saved and the ticket price was actually $2.50. Nuts huh? 20 bands for two days with free camping and parking for $2.50. Free water too, no $3 bottles of water like today's festivals. No wonder we lost money. To put that in perspective, $2.50 in 2008 dollars is about $13.50. OK, another correction/clarification. I also came across an old copy of the UF student newspaper, the Alligator, in which there was an article about the, then upcoming, 6th Annual Halloween Masquerade Ball and a brief history of the first five events. The reporter interviewed Jeffrey Goldstein (the Rose member who had become the head of Student Government Productions) and myself. This refreshed my fading memory a bit. The 1972 Ball was shut down after an impromptu costume contest flooded the stage with revelers while Mudcrutch was setting up on stage. There were problems getting the fans to leave the stage and Mudcrutch refused to play until it was cleared. This delayed the start of their set and they only played about 30-40 minutes when University officials pulled the plug soon after the scheduled ending time of 1 am. And, yes, there was apparently some damage done by the crowd, which had gotten a bit rowdy, which caused problems for the Rose and contributed to our eventual ouster from campus. Regarding the Gainesville Music Festival (GMF) and the relative popularity of Mudcrutch and Lynyrd Skynyrd . . . Those two went on the become famous, so the assumption many people would make is that they were the most popular or clearly considered to be the best bands. Not true. They were both great bands but there were other bands that, at the time, were just as good or better. At the GMF I really don't remember if those two bands even played on the same night and I can't comment on which one got the best crowd reaction. I do remember that they both put in solid sets that were well received by the crowd. The headliner for the festival was Goose Creek Symphony, a band that had a couple of albums out and had played in front of 500,000+ at the Atlanta Pop Festival. They got an incredible reaction from the crowd and became a big draw in Gainesville for years to come. I don't remember who the headliner was the other night of the festival. For most people, Goose Creek was the highlight of the weekend. Another GMF performance which sticks in my mind was by an area bluegrass band, The Dixie Ramblers. One aspect of booking that I've always enjoyed is having bands that play drastically different styles of music play on the same bill. They performed in the afternoon and followed a pretty heavy rock band. These guys had played for many years (they were all middle-aged, at the least) but they were scared shitless. They told me they had never played in front of more than 50 or 75 people and they were on stage staring at a crowd of 5000 young hippies (definitely NOT their normal audience) who had just wildly applauded a rock band. They figured the crowd would hate them and boo them off the stage. I had to talk them into going on but they finally agreed, saying that they would only play a few songs and get off stage quickly. Well, the crowd went absolutely wild. They had 5000 hippies on their feet and dancing. The band was in a state of shock. The fans demanded encores. After the set they told me it had been their best show ever and the reaction they got was every bit as strong as Mudcrutch or Skynyrd got, maybe even better. They played for us sometime later as an opening act at the Auditorium too. Out of town bands, like Skynyrd, usually received more interest from the fans since they hadn't heard them regularly, or at all. Overexposure can be a problem for a local band regardless of how good they are. At the show in the Auditorium where Skynyrd and Mucrutch played, Skynyrd was the headliner. I came across another ticket for a show we did with Cowboy (another band with albums out who I mentioned previously) in the Auditorium and Mudcrutch opened for them. $1.50 for that show. A couple of other out of town bands that drew big crowds were Stonehenge (from Atlanta) and Power (from Orlando). Power (a classic 'power trio' with a twist) was especially popular. They played at the first Halloween Ball and for us in the Auditorium on several occasions. Danny Roberts, who later joined Mudcrutch, played bass in Power. When I first saw the infamous Mudcrutch pic, which he says he was later airbrushed out of, I said to myself, "Who is THAT guy? Oh, yeah, that's the guy from Power who joined Mudcrutch later on". I didn't even know his name because the guys in Power all used nicknames - Donnie Dumptruck, Rat and Pig (Danny was Pig as I recall) and their roadie was Smut. I didn't actually remember his name until I read his posts here. I only heard the version of Mudcrutch with Danny a few times (I got married in March 1973 and was out of town for about 6 months while my wife was doing internships) but I remember how their sound had become more rock oriented. Previous to that Mudcrutch was really a 'country-rock' band - much like the Mudcrutch album. Perhaps that has something to do with Tommy Leadon's background, which was influenced by his brother, Bernie, who was in the Flying Burrito Bros and later, the Eagles. And, of course, the Byrds had influenced EVERYONE. Some semi-related trivia I've recently learned: Bernie had originally been mostly a bluegrass picker until he joined The Maundy Quintet (at whose show I first met both Toms). The Maundies had previously been known as the Continentals, another legendary Gville band that I never got to hear. Bernie apparently started playing electric guitar after meeting Don Felder (who later also joined the Eagles) and then Bernie joined the Continentals, replacing Stephen Stills, and they changed their name to the Maundy Quintet. Petty apparently took lessons from Felder too. So the country influence was quite strong. One of the most memorable Mudcrutch shows for me was an Auditorium gig they did with a local banjo player (I've forgotten his name). The guy didn't just play on a couple of songs, they played a whole set together. HOT! So, when Danny says he was a catalyst in Mudcrutch, I can at least confirm that the sound of the band did change after he joined. Anyway, back to Power. They had a huge following in Gainesville. We never had an opening act when they played the Auditorium because they did two sets. The first set was done as a "traditional" power trio - Donnie Dumptruck on guitar, Pig on bass and Rat on drums. For the second set, Dumptruck would sit in a folding chair and play guitar, augmented by harmonica on a holder around his neck and also play bass using the bass pedals from an organ. I think Pig (Danny Roberts) would then play guitar (or was it electric piano??). They were an awesome band. Of course the band you thought was best depended heavily on which type of music you preferred. If you were less into country-rock and favored music that was influenced more by early rock 'n roll (think '50s Elvis) and say The Rolling Stones, the local band that rocked you was RGF (Real Good Fuck). If most people had been asked to predict which one of the local bands would end up being famous, they probably would have said it would be RGF. Fairly recently I learned about a website which has a rather long (four sections) essay about "Great Gainesville Bands" which was written by a formerly local musician, Gary Gordon. It's at: http://garygordonproductions.com/great_gainesville_bands.html Gary's slightly younger than me and, of course, these are his memories and much of it centers around bands he was in and on the scene of the late '70s onward, after Petty left town. After I read it I was seriously questioning my own memory - the sonofabitch mentioned all kinds of details I had forgotten. Luckily, I ran into one of his former bandmates who assured me that Gary had spoken to lots of other musicians when he was gathering information for his site, so now I don't feel quite so bad about my sometimes questionable memory. Gary is an actual writer though and he wrote a bit about RGF so here's an excerpt from his site with a couple of notes from me in (( )): "But there is really only one band in that period of the late 60s and very early 70s that stands out and should hold the title of the best band of that era: RGF, which stood for Really Good Fuck or Really Good Friends, depending on where they were playing. They were everything mentioned above and more. While people might say "oh yeah, Riff's playin' at the Union", people drove miles to see RGF. Featuring Jeff Jourard ((lead guitar)), Thomas Patty ((rhythm guitar)), Carl Patty (and later, Ron Blair) ((bass)), Mike Hitchcock ((drums)), Doug D'Amico and Randy (whose last name I don't remember) ((Randy Williford, aka Randy Kidd and Doug were the singers)), this band combined the best of the Allman Brothers and the Rolling Stones, with their own signature sound and frenzy. They had great dual guitar work, two great lead singers who were also showmen, great arrangements of covers (their Jailhouse Rock never failed to bring down the house), great originals, and great jams. . . . . RGF were the perfect intersection of a band of creative artists and entertainers satisfying the exact desires, wishes and fantasies of the crowd. They were rock n roll incarnate." One of Gary Gordon's memories of RGF refers to a show the Rose put on: " the time they headlined at the UF Auditorium and, along with playing great, the two lead singers rubbed raw hamburger meat over themselves and threw it in the audience (okay, you probably had to be there); and their arrangement of Martha & The Vandellas' Dancin' In The Street: it's an arrangement I still play to this day, over 30 years later." We caught hell for the "hamburger incident", mostly because of the aftermath, which involved meatballs being thrown all around the Auditorium. Classic! I believe it was only Randy who smeared it on his bare chest - not Doug. I'm not really familiar with the Stooges, but I've read that Iggy Pop once smeared peanut butter (?) on himself in a similar manner. Does anyone know when that was? I've wondered if RGF was doing an Iggy imitation or if this was pre-Iggy. RGF certainly had a knack for coming up with great arrangements of older songs - Gary mentioned "Jailhouse Rock" and "Dancin' In The Street ". The other one I remember was a brilliant arrangement of the traditional folk song "John Henry". I'm normally not into all this nostalgia shit but I hope some of you found this interesting. I know it's not all Mudcrutch/Petty related, but hopefully it will give you some idea of the music scene they were a part of. . . . . Charlie
  2. Hey - no apology necessary. That's not how I took it at all. I was just curious who you had talked to and I figured it might have been Bruce. (the phrase "evil droogs" gave it away) By the way if you could contact me privately (I think you can just click on my screen name here to do that or through ebay is good too) with info on how to contact him I'd appreciate it, or ask him to contact me - I'm in the phone book. I haven't seen him in about 10 years, I think. And, if anyone could be called "the promoter" it would be him. He was the driving force, as I said, and the Rose would not have existed without him . . . or without a guy named Andy Kramer who was (how to put it?) almost a spiritual inspiration since he was the quintessential Gainesville hippie and had put on some free shows before the Rose was organized and then worked with us too. (I sure would like to know what happened to him!) I played my part but I don't think my role was central to that scene. I have heard Bruce say to other people "Chawles (trying to imitate his NY accent) discovered Tom Petty and Lynyrd Skynyrd." Well, that's bullshit and he's gifted like that =8^) And as far as accuracy goes, I really don't remember as many details as I'd like to so his recollections are certainly just as valid for sure - maybe more valid. So, if Bruce isn't interested in posting here, well, by all means don't hesitate to pass on some info you've heard from him. Well, I still mean to post a followup to the "down to earth" theme as it applies to Mudcrutch but since I've mentioned Skynyrd, I've got to say a few things about them too. I booked them after hearing them at an album release party for a great band called Cowboy, who also played for us and which had just been signed to Capricorn Records, whose main act was the Allman Bros. Do a search for Cowboy and for their main guys Tommy Talton (who I got to hear this past March) and Scott Boyer. Great writers. Well, Skynyrd opened for their album release party which was held on the front lawn of a house off 13th St. Now I have also heard that Petty lived at this house at some point but I can't personally confirm that. Interestingly, the house is gone now and a condo project is there and its called "Wildflower". Coincidence or ??? I don't know. Well, the Skynyrd guys were pretty down to earth too. On at least one occasion they showed up early for a gig and sat around our living room playing acoustics before setting up. At the time they were even more blues oriented than what came to be called Southern Rock, which certainly was too. Bruce asked me what we should put on the poster for their first gig at the University Auditorium and the phrase I suggested was "Heavy, Driving, Blues Rock!" Anyway, since I told you about the Desurah (sp??) Festival, here's a story that's related . . . A couple weeks before the Gainesville Music Festival (our show) Ronnie Van Zant called me on the phone. We had already talked to them about playing at our festival. He said that the Desurah promoters wanted them to play at their festival too and were offering them much more money than we had. Ronnie said the stipulation was that Skynyrd had to cancel their gig with us if they wanted to play Desurah . I told him that we really couldn't afford to pay them any more and that we would understand if they cancelled and wouldn't hold it against them. That they should do what was best for their band. No hard feelings, etc. His response was, "No, man, I just wanted to let you know what these scumbags are up to and they're probably trying to get some of the other bands to cancel your gig too." He went on to say how much they appreciated the gigs that the Rose had promoted with them in Gainesville and that nobody was going to tell them where they could or couldn't play. No matter how much money was being offered. So that showed real integrity on their part. Now I know Skynyrd is somewhat of a joke to some people - especially the cliche of fans who yell "Freeee Bird! at concerts everywhere. Well, as gatorhugger will confirm, they don't think they're a joke in Jacksonville, but elsewhere they're fair game it seems. I can't say I've followed them much since the fateful plane crash, but to me that cliche chant is indicative of their influence, which can't be denied whether or not you're a fan of theirs. Now last year they played at Gator Growl, which is a huge "pep rally" which is held at Florida Field on the Friday night before the Homecoming Football Game. I didn't go and there's apparently not much of the original band left, but I actually heard the music from inside my house and I walked outside and stood in my yard and, as corny as it sounds, I got goose bumps when I heard them play Freebird and I thought about that phone call from Ronnie. . . . Charlie
  3. >>>Since Charles started posting I have been getting some great stories on this whole time period from both Charles and the promoter.<<< Hmmm. Other than myself, who have you been in contact with? Who's the person you describe as "the promoter"? Is there someone else from the old Rose crew out there who's been following this? If so, it'd be great if they would join in and post here. I certainly don't claim to be the definitive historian of this saga. The Rose was a group of people, headed by its founder Bruce Nearon, but I wouldn't characterize any one person as THE promoter, even though Bruce could be described as the driving force. He's one of the most energetic guys I've had the pleasure of knowing and he has a real gift of being able to get people enthused about a cause. As I mentioned in the ebay description of the poster (I was the seller and I've been under the impression that gatorhugger was the buyer, correct?) there was a huge crowd - at least 15,000 and 20,000 is a real possibility - and probably 85%-90% were in costume. And, yes, the size of the student body was much smaller then than today. >>>John Jones opened in the late afternoon and people just started showing up like woodstock. The university pulled the Plug on Mudcrutch at midnight and a minor riot occurred.<<< Not sure where you got this info. First, the show didn't start until 9 pm or, probably a bit later ("musician's time zone" is generally in effect at any show) just as it says on the poster. I can't say I recall exactly when it ended, nor do I recall that the power was cut off but that is entirely possible. I believe that Mudcrutch was able to play essentially all of their set though. From the 9 pm starting time, which would have been approved by UF officials, I'm thinking the show went to at least 1 am, after which time the power may have been cut off. They did make us start this Halloween Ball earlier than the previous ones, which started at midnight and ended at 4 am. I'm still not sure how we got them to go along with that but somehow we did. I'm sure there were noise complaints after the ones that started at midnight, so the starting time was moved up for the 3rd one. I can't say that I specifically recall anything resembling a "minor riot" although there may have been some disgruntled fans who may have caused some trouble. I certainly didn't see or experience everything that went on in such a huge crowd. >>>Even the security staff( dressed like evil droogs from Clockwork orange) started breaking stuff. <<< Well, there WAS a whole group of guys dressed in costumes from the movie A Clockwork Orange - white jumpsuits with black bowler hats and billy clubs. So I guess someone else who was there filled you in on this detail. Lots of amazing, creative, costumes. However, I don't recall that they were the "security staff". There were some guys who helped with security at the shows we promoted in the University Auditorium and those guys would have helped to secure the stage area at Halloween but they wouldn't have been involved with crowd control. The crowd was way too large for that to be effective. I remember the "evil droogs" cavorting through the crowd and acting "in character" by chasing some people (I assumed their friends) around. The UPD (University Police Dept) was out in force but even they were relegated to directing traffic. The crowd that year completely filled up the Plaza of the Americas and spilled out into the surrounding campus streets, which had to be closed. I remember hearing reports that there were major traffic issues on University Ave and other streets too, so I guess the Gainesville Police were also pretty busy. The UPD always complained about the Halloween Ball being a major problem and UF officials would be up in arms afterward. Our standard response was to ask how many people they had arrested. The answer was usually none, although on this occasion there may have been a few. I'd have to research old newspaper accounts to say for sure. We would then point out that either (if it was as bad as they claimed) the police weren't doing their job or the event really didn't cause that much of a problem. We would then ask how many people were arrested at the most recent football game. The number would usually be from 30-60. So, of course, the next question would be whether they were considering eliminating football too. We also had a great supporter and guardian angel in the person of the late Dr. Jack Faricy, who was our faculty advisor. (Sorry we gave you so many headaches, Jack!) >>>The university then stopped the Halloween concerts after that last (3rd) one.<<< Well, as I mentioned in the ebay description, the Halloween Ball WAS banned from UF the following year but the statement above is a bit misleading. First, the University did not promote the first 3 events and they did continue. The 4th Annual Halloween Masquerade Ball was held on the campus of Santa Fe Community College. We were not allowed to return there either because some bushes at the newly built campus had been trampled and, although we replaced them, we were told we couldn't use their facilities again. The following year we were scrambling around trying to find a location for the 5th Annual Ball. We approached the small town of Micanopy, just south of Gainesville, and met with their town council. We suggested that we would include an arts & crafts show, which would run all day long, and then provide music at night. They thought it was a great idea but they wanted it to be a two-day event and questioned whether we could put it all together in time so they told us to come back the following year. This is how the Micanopy Fall Harvest Festival got started. We gave them the idea and they promoted it themselves starting the next year. That event is still going on - although the meaning of the term "harvest" has changed over the years. Back then Micanopy's main crop was known as "Micanopy Madness" Tom probably remembers THAT! =8^) We were running out of options so, with Halloween approaching, we talked to our friends at the farm where the Gainesville Music Festival was held and the event was held there using remnants of the festival stage and portable generators for power. The crowd at the stage was very small yet thousands of people came. Huh? Well, the roads into the farm were very sandy we were quite understaffed and when some of the early arrivers got stuck they just abandoned their cars and started walking before we could get a tractor there to pull them out of the sand. Other cars just pulled up behind them and parked and walked too, apparently thinking that the parking area was already full. There was a long line of cars leading out of the farm and down the road while the field that we planned to use as a "parking lot" was virtually empty. The people who made it there heard some great music but most didn't get that far. We heard stories of how there were cars pulled over on the side of the road with people partying on the roadside and that this stretched for many miles - all the way from the farm thru the small town of Archer and back towards Gainesville. So it was a party but most people didn't get to hear the bands! The following year we were able to infiltrate UF Student Government when some of our members (I was no longer a student) formed the Rock 'n Roll Party and one of our members, Jeffrey Goldstein, became the chairman of Student Government Productions (SGP), which received money from student fees. So, beginning with the 6th Annual event, it became an official UF event promoted by SGP and was toned down enough that UF administrators accepted it. In all the event was produced for over 20 years, although it was pretty lame towards the end and by then almost no one dressed up. Sad. I may be the only person who attended every one of these events. . . . Charlie
  4. I'll respond to some of your recent comments in a couple days or so but, in the meantime, here's another old down-to-earth Petty story that I recall. A bit involved, but maybe you'll find it interesting . . . . In the spring of 1971 the Rose put on a local rock festival called the Gainesville Music Festival. It was held on a 240 acre farm about 25 miles outside of town that was owned by some friends of ours. It was a success musically but, unfortunately, we lost money. We had about 20 bands in two days, free camping, even some free food, and charged $5 admission. It drew about 5000 people. Mudcrutch played, as did Skynyrd, RGF and a bunch of other great local bands. The headliner was a band called Goose Creek Symphony, which I had heard at the Atlanta Pop Festival the previous summer. A great, and very innovative, band. Check them out. Well, there was another group of people from South Florida who were also trying to put on a festival about the same time. Actually, the festival was just a means to an end. Their real goal was to buy some area land that was for sale and sell lots or build a subdivision or something. Only problem was they didn't have the $$$. After learning that the owners of the land lived in Chicago and had no local realtor connections (there was just a sign on the property with a Chicago phone number on it) they figured they could just use the land without the owner's knowledge. Their plan was to put on a rock festival, make a bunch of money, and buy the land. They were in the process of getting the property ready when the Sheriff found out about their scam and chased them off the land. Well, the people who owned the farm we had used hadn't made money on our festival either - I think there was some profit-sharing arrangement or something. So, despite our warnings about these scumbags, they offered their land to the other promoters since it had just been used and had a stage set up and everything. So a week after our festival, the Duserah (sp??) Festival was held on the farm. Many people in the crowd were not from the Gainesville area and the promoters let things get way out of hand. Their so-called 'security force' consisted of a group of 'karate experts' whose leader drove around in a car with a pet lion (yes, a full-grown lion!) in the back seat. Colorful, but not particularly effective. The Sheriff was especially upset with the rampant drug dealing that was going on so he decided to shut the festival down. He called in officers from surrounding counties and when he started busting people the whole crowd immediately fled the scene en masse! The result was that the whole farm was covered with abandoned campsites and trash - 240 acres of garbage. Well, we couldn't just let the farm become a trash dump so the Rose eventually organized some clean-up events. We put up posters all around town urging people to come out on Saturday mornings and pick up trash and then, in the evening, we'd have a band play and have a party. Well, Mudcrutch volunteered to play at one of these events. So early one Saturday morning people were starting to gather and we were getting things organized when here comes Tom (and Mike?) with a van full of equipment. I figured he was confused about the schedule and told him that they weren't supposed to play until evening. He said, "Yeah, I know. But you need help picking up garbage, right?" He spent the whole day helping to pick up trash and I think some of the other members came a little later and helped some too. Then the band set up on the stage and played in the evening. So, yeah, they were pretty down to earth back then. It took a few of these trash parties but the farm did eventually get cleaned up. . . . . Charlie
  5. >>>After you starting scouting him for bookings, what was your impression, had he changed from high school? what did you see in them that you knew was special and made you want to hire them so many times? Did you pay them direct? sign contracts? can you walk us through that time?<<< Well, my memory is a bit hazy on the contract/payment question. I know we did have rudimentary contracts with some bands, more legalistic ones with others (mostly out of town bands that had managers) and with some it was all just a handshake deal. I really don't remember exactly the arrangements with Mudcrutch. I didn't personally sign any contracts since I was too young to legally do so. Tom was pretty much the same guy from high school to the time we booked Mudcrutch. He was pretty down to earth and to a casual, outside observer, probably came across as a bit of a slacker. He always had a strong sense of mission and self-determination when it came to music. It was obvious to me that he had talent and I was always interested in promoting talented musicians - and still am, although not in the same manner. I do remember an incident that gave me some added motivation. This was the year before the Rose started doing shows. I was living in the dorms during my freshman year and I looked out the window, which was a few floors up, and saw Tom outside. Tom was working for the Physical Plant division of the University of Florida. He was dressed in a light blue work uniform and had a stick with a nail in the end of it and a canvas bag slung over his shoulder and he was walking around stabbing little bits of paper and litter and putting them in the bag. Well, that was a sight that really affected me because I was aware of his abilities and I couldn't help but be a bit angry and sad that he was obviously not able to support himself doing music at that point. So the next year, when I moved out of the dorms and into an apartment and met Bruce Nearon and the whole Rose thing got going, I tried to book Mudcrutch as often as possible. But, hey, there were lots of really good bands around and we did what we could to help them all. Gotta go but I'll try to post again soon . . . Charlie
  6. Well, since you guys enjoy the stories here's another one . . . I went to Gainesville High School, just as Tom did, but he's a year older than me so I didn't have any academic classes with him. At one point, however, we were in the same PE class. One day he was using the locker next to mine and I noticed him putting something into the pocket of his jeans. I asked him what it was and he showed me a little spray can of 'mace'. I asked him why he was carrying 'mace' and he said that some of the rednecks at school regularly threatened to beat him up because he had long hair! At that time, this would have been around 1967 or 68, long hair was not allowed. Tom had been given special dispensation on the long hair rule because he was in a band (the Sundowners or the Epics - not sure which at that point) and it was considered some sort of occupational requirement or something. In fact, they tried to suspend me in 1969 because my hair was over the collar of my shirt. Well, you can imagine my reaction when the first Heartbreakers album was released. Here was Tom on the cover dressed in a black leather jacket! It seemed like the record company was trying to make him look like some kind of 'tough guy' or juvenile delinquent. Of course that was far from the truth - which might explain why he has that goofy grin on his face. I laughed like hell when I saw that picture. I bet all the rednecks who were threatening him now claim to have been his buddies too. . . . Charlie
  7. Well, here's a 'back in the day' bit of trivia that's sorta related to Mudcruch (sorta) . . . The first time I met Tom Petty was at the Moose Club in Gainesville. I think it was probably around 1965. The Moose Club held teen dances and I went down there to hear a band that had just gotten a lot of attention in town and had a single out that was being played on the local radio station, WGGG. This was AM radio, of course, FM rock / pop / top 40 didn't really exist at that time (at least in Gville). The band was called The Maundy Quintet and one reason they were getting airplay (besides the fact that they were an excellent band) was likely because the drummer, who was known as 'Boomer', was a DJ at WGGG. Some of the other guys in the band were students at Gainesville High School (or maybe recent graduates??). So I was standing at the edge of the stage as they were getting ready to start their set when a kid standing next to me leans over and proudly tells me that one of the guitar players is his big brother. The kid was Tommy Leadon and his big brother, of course, is Bernie Leadon who later played with Dillard & Clark, Linda Ronstadt, The Flying Burrito Brothers, and the Eagles. The other guitar player in the band was Don Felder, who also ended up in the Eagles after a while. Did he replace Bernie? I think so. Anyway, after telling me this he introduced me to the guy standing next to him, a skinny, goofy looking blond kid named Tommy Petty. We went to different Jr. High Schools at the time so I hadn't met these guys before but of course later I'd run into them regularly in the course of going out to hear live bands around Gainesville. Not long afterwards they started playing gigs themselves. . . . Charlie
  8. No Problem. The poster is just on regular paper, not cardboard. I didn't personally print them myself or on my personal behalf. The Rose had posters designed and printed for all the various shows. These events included occasional free shows around the University of Florida campus (usually outside one of the dorms), the regular shows in the University Auditorium (admission to those was usually 50ยข to $1), and the Halloween Masquerade Ball. Posters for the other events were simpler and smaller. They were just black ink on regular 8 1/2" x 11" colored paper. The Halloween Ball posters were larger and we used more than one color. This was our primary (and usually only) means of advertising the shows. During the week before a show we (usually myself and Bruce Nearon who was the Rose founder and my roommate) would walk all around campus and areas around town where we figured the fans would go and put up posters. Posters were stapled on bulletin boards but mostly taped on metal utility poles, sides of buildings, put up in stores and restaurants, etc. This was an ongoing and time consuming process since we put numerous posters in and around every major building on campus. We especially targeted the dorms. We'd walk through every floor and put up posters. This was before security concerns that resulted in dorm floors being locked. I don't know exactly how many were printed for this event but it seems we used to have 500 - 1000 printed for shows at the Auditorium so I would guess that 1500 or so of these might have been printed. Perhaps it was less since they were quite a bit more expensive than our regular posters. Since this was the biggest event of the year we put up Halloween posters for at least 2 weeks before the show and we would go through many buildings twice to replace posters that had fallen or been taken down. Oh, and these are NOT photocopies, they were printed by a professional printing company, as were all of our posters. (Were photocopiers even around back then? I don't remember.) Usually all the posters were put up before the event but we must have run out of time before the show and I ended up a few extras. There are not hundreds of these. I probably have about 20 and, as I mentioned in the description, I don't plan to auction more at this point. That's why I will also include a notarized statement concerning the authenticity of the poster. If the buyer resells it at some point, I would expect they would also include the signed, notarized statement. If you start seeing a bunch of these then they will be copies. As for other original copies, I'm sure Bruce Nearon has one or two since he kept one or two posters from many of our shows. And, of course, it's possible that someone who attended the event pulled one off a bulletin board and kept it as a memento. The only other original copy I know to exist is one I gave to Marty Jourard, one of the members of Road Turkey (who was later in the band The Motels), when he visited Gainesville a couple of years ago. Hope that answers your questions. . . . Charlie
  9. Well, I'm glad at least some of you haven't had any problems. I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion of Paypal but you DID ask so I felt obligated to explain my position. I think it's fascinating how the corporate mentality operates. It'll be interesting to see what sort of response I get from the auction. But I suppose that it's obvious that one of my motivations was also to inject some editorial comment on some of the stories about the early days of Mudcrutch / TPATH which have essentially entered into the realm of LEGEND at this point . . . and to hopefully add a few more details about their early days in Gainesville which don't seem to be generally known. I was going to post something on their official sites (both Mudcrutch and TPATH) but since I have this listed for sale it's a violation of policy so maybe someone there will pick up on it. I actually have one other Mudcrutch poster, which also ties in with a bit of Gainesville history. I've only got one copy though. It was for a benefit concert which the Rose organized to help pay for the legal defense of the Gainesville Eight - a group of mostly Vietnam Vets who were charged with conspiracy to disrupt the Republican National Convention in 1972. It was a major national trial. (Try Google for more details) They played along with the infamous RGF (Real Good Fuck), which was the band Ron Blair was in before he joined Road Turkey. Famed defense lawyer William Kunstler also spoke. They played on Friday and two other bands, Celebration and Outlaw, played Saturday. Incidentally, Mike Campbell lived upstairs in a house he shared with some (all?) of the members of Celebration - or maybe it was Tom who lived there - I'm not sure which actually. I remember going there one day to talk to the guys in Celebration about a gig and ended up hanging out upstairs listening to Tom and Mike jamming on some acoustic country stuff. . . . Charlie
  10. Why am I selling it? Well, why does anyone sell something like this? I need gas money! Seriously, with all the interest in Mudcrutch since the reformation of the group and the release of the album, I thought it might be a good time to see if there was any interest in this. Mostly I'm just curious to see what it might be worth. And, as I stated, I do have a few more of them, so it's not like I'm selling the last one I have. Why no Paypal? Dude, have you READ the Paypal User Agreement? Scary shit! :eek: Maybe old hippies like myself are just less trusting of the motives of Corporate America. But Paypal does some things that I find highly intrusive. And it's gotten worse since Ebay bought Paypal and and now they do everything they can to force Paypal on Ebay users. Want examples? As I mentioned, I couldn't even list this poster for sale without signing up for Paypal. Apparently that's a new addition to the Ebay rules. It was not the case the last time I sold an item, which was about a year ago. And I couldn't just get a regular Paypal account, I had to get a 'Premier' account. And it doesn't just affect sellers. I'm mostly a buyer on Ebay. I collect and restore vintage stereo gear (as a hobby) and I was recently prevented from bidding on an item because I didn't have Paypal, despite the fact that the seller accepted Cashier's Checks and Money Orders also and they were listed as acceptable payments. When I listed this poster I found out why this happened. There is a box on the listing form which is prechecked (you have to uncheck it) that restricts bidding to buyers who have a Paypal account. In that case the policy not only prevented me from bidding and potentially winning an item, but it also hurt the seller. At the very least he would have gotten slightly more for the item. But he potentially lost out on quite a bit more money. The item sold for about $16 and the bid I was trying to enter was $90 so, depending on what the other bidder's maximum bid actually was, the seller lost out too. If his maximum was higher than my attempted bid, the seller would have gotten $91 instead of $16. It's a lose - lose situation. Ironically, Ebay lost out too because they could have collected a higher 'final value fee' but they have obviously done the math and concluded that they will make more by forcing everyone to use Paypal. Then they collect not only a 'final value fee' but also a Paypal fee. In fact, Ebay essentially tries to hide your ability to even list the option of other payments. When you list something for sale now you are given a 'streamlined' form to fill out. It doesn't even give you the option of listing Cashier's Check and Money Order as a payment method. In order to do this, you have to scroll waaay down and find a link that directs you to a listing form with more options. Sneaky! Yes, but intrusive?? Here's how they are intrusive . . . When you get Paypal it gives you the ability to pay with your credit card without giving your card number to each seller. Paypal acts as a go-between. Sounds pretty good, right. It's convenient and safe. If that's all it was it would be great. But, if you use Paypal for a while you eventually reach a certain limit. It used to be $1500, I believe. Not sure what it is now. Now normally, I can use my credit card at as many merchants as I like and, as long as my card is not maxed out, I can keep using it indefinitely since I make payments on it each month. Well, with Paypal, after you have bought a total of $1500 worth of stuff from various sellers with no problems, you can no longer continue to use Paypal unless you become 'Verified'. You've established yourself as a reliable buyer but you are told that you can no longer use their service. Huh? :confused: There are two ways you can get 'verified'. One is by applying for a Paypal Credit Card. You have established yourself as a regular user, now they can well, not exactly FORCE, but strongly encourage you to shift your credit card usage (at least when you use Paypal and perhaps other purchases too) to a something they will get additional profit from. Using their card becomes the path of least resistance. Pretty shrewd. But even if you don't use it much, they can profit by selling your information to others. Read their 'privacy statement'. When you sign up you are given the option of choosing NOT to let them share your information with outside companies they are 'affiliated' with. ('Affiliated' means they have a contract with another company to sell them information) OK, so you can choose not to allow this. How do you make this choice? Well, you can't just check a box on your application, you have to call a toll free number or write to a PO Box and request this. But this is done AFTER you have applied for a card and given out your information. And the agreement states that it takes 30 days for them to activate this order to stop giving out your information AND that, even after they have activated the order, the information that was already sold to others can be used by them in future indefinitely. Of course, over and over again they remind you that the whole purpose of Paypal is to offer you more safety and security. Right. But here's the topper! The other way to get 'verified' so you can continue to use their service and feel more secure is to link your credit card to your bank account. This what led me to stop using Paypal some years ago when I had an earlier account. When you give them your bank account information, you are actually giving them the right to access your account. They can transfer money into and OUT OF your account without having to notify you ahead of time. You give them blanket approval to do so. And this does not only apply to your checking account but also to any SAVINGS account which is linked to your checking account. So in order to buy things with your (existing) credit card, you give them this access. Well, I've used my credit card with a large variety of merchants over the years and not one of them has demanded direct access to my bank account in order to pay for something with a credit card. THAT is intrusive in my book. :077: Think that none of this really matters? Do a search for anti-Paypal and anti-Ebay websites and you'll read a wide array of horror stories. While I haven't had any problems with my limited use of it, some years ago I did buy an item from a reputable Ebay seller using Paypal. He only received a small part of what I paid him because of a frivolous claim by a previous buyer. I talked to the guy on the phone and I firmly believe that he was a straight-shooter. Most of the money I sent was removed from his account by Paypal. He was in the process of closing his Paypal account because he had gotten nothing but a runaround from Paypal when he tried to straighten out the problem and they completely ignored evidence he submitted to them. Unfortunately he had not removed the logo from his website before I used it. I felt bad but what could I do. :085: So trust Corporate America if you like. Hey, I seem to recall that Tom Petty has expressed a similar point of view as a result of his dealing with record companies and others . . . "I Won't Back Down" and "Last DJ" and maybe some others. . . . Charlie
  11. I thought you folks might be interested in this ORIGINAL Mudcrutch Concert Poster from 1972. I just listed this on Ebay (yes, I am the seller) and there is a bit of interesting Mudcrutch / Tom Petty info in the description. Hope you enjoy it! . . . Charlie http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-MUDCRUTCH-TOM-PETTY-Concert-Poster-from-1972_W0QQitemZ250265070053QQihZ015QQcategoryZ85996QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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