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Responses To Hypnotic Eye

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21 hours ago, Shelter said:

^ The trick is to realize that backwards, for all intents and purposes, is really the true forward in this case! :D 

But, yeah... interesting reaction there. Experimental is not a word I would likely use in a TP context either. Sure, everything is in relation to something else - and sure, it is unusual for TP to let the freak flag fly to reggae or jazzy rhytms. But generally, I see a rather traditional, old-school aura surrounding most of  TP. Deeply personal in touch and sometimes a little to the side of said main street perhaps. But TP to me is a huge traditionalist in terms of heritage, he knows his legacy, and he´s so good at that and yet at keeping it fresh, interesting and personal - up to date one migh say.

Good points! Agreed!

 

15 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

 DCAHNM, It Ain't Nothin' To Me, Lookin' for Daddy, It's Rainin' Again, Trip to  Pirates Cove, not that any of these, save maybe the first three would even qualify as experimental relative to other bands/musicians but for TPATH they're doing something different. Same with Full Grown Boy which feels jazzy but it's not quite jazz, there's a lightness to the music that feels different from other songs they've recorded.

(...)

 I like TPATH when they get heavy, it's largely unexplored territory for the band. I also think this album has an excellent flow, nicely balancing between uptempo and rocking songs and more contemplative tunes.

  As you said, one man's coffee...in this case Hypnotic Eye is a double shot of Espresso in a large black coffee to go as you hit the open road.

cheers

Good points! Agreed!

 

15 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Understood.

It's too bad so little of this record was performed live and as such, nothing was really expanded upon save Shadow People. Your favorite is Into The Great Wide Open, right? That was back when American Girl didn't finish every show and they played quite a bit from the new record. Hope you were able to see that tour.

cheers

Yeah, not quite, Wildflowers, then ITGWO. But unfortunately I was too young then to see them live. Wasn't that much interested in music, just loved the record and things only started to get rolling for me musically. And I did not see how valuable it would turn out to be to go to a concert. How could I know they would not tour Germany for 20 years???

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15 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

Listened to some of Sabrina and Stella Maris (?). From what I've heard thus far it's not for me.

cheers

:D Funny! I did not mean for you to take that remark literally... My "attitude", as always, comes across less than optimal... EN served like an example of what "experimental" might mean to me, given the context we were discussing above. I know that is not your definition of experimental though, I get it. But since you followed that trail and checked them out - glad you did! - I am more about, both in terms of example of experimental and in terms of what is really good, their early 80s stuff. 

And to once again be overly clear: I am with you in most all things you say about TP in general and the HE album and the live aspect in particular. No beef. What labels we choose to describe it is less important. HE surely is one of the best and most heavy rocking record since the 70s. I never questioned that. I once questioned (and still do) if it really is that 70s in style, if it really is that straight rock throughout, and all the other things we´ve been told it is by TP and the sales-pitches and labeling surrounding it. That is, just like Mojo, to me HE is largely an album hyped and sold to fit in a tight, ovely simplified music form that it can´t easily be squeezed into. In short - it is so much more than it´s said to be! And that, my friend, to me, is a good thing and that´s also why I think - labels aside - that you and I are quite on the level. I guess those stupid ways to market an album says as much about the market logic and low brow consumer mentality of our day and age as it does about TP or his management, but still. I think it´s worth pointing out and that´s what I´ve been doing.   

I also, even if that is a different discussion all together, used to question the talk about how down to earth HE was in the making, how cut live in studio it was and how involved all of the band was in the process and all that. To me that is, again, mostly about image and hype, and it´s plain to see, to hear and even read in interview(s?) that none of that - save for some live in studio basic tracks - was not what actually happened. Once the basic tracks were in place and the band had found their groove and added their bits and pieces, all of the cutting, pasting, overdubbing various instruments and even whatever little harmony singing is on there, was taken care of by TP and Ryan, alone. That covers a lot of what Ben, Scott and Ron would normally come it to add, had this album been created the way the myth has it. To me that all suggests a situation very much like ITGWO. Another great album mind you, if totally down a different road in terms of style, but unlike HE, back in 1992 it was a matter of pride and fashion to admit what was going down - at least Stan liked to admit it. A lot. :D - while in 2014 you have to pose as if you make a gritty back to basics album even when you don´t.  Nothing wrong with the end result though, this is me, again, talking largely about the image and market side and saying that I don´t buy it. I see and hear different things, but the main thing is that I like what I hear for most parts, rights. I do think I would have liked it even more, in my heart, had I known Ron to play all the cool bass parts, rather than TP, had Ben been available (or allowed?) to play a tad more and had him and Scott been allowed to add a few more harmony parts on there. It could, perhaps, been a warmer and even better rock classic then, than it already is - and all the big fancy words selling it would surely been more honest and true. Again.. this is just words. I find them worth pondering, but the main thing is - I still think it is a great, rocking album, with great songs. One of the peaks in the career? Oh, yes.

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12 hours ago, Shelter said:

I am with you in most all things you say about TP in general and the HE album and the live aspect in particular. No beef. What labels we choose to describe it is less important. HE surely is one of the best and most heavy rocking record since the 70s. I never questioned that. I once questioned (and still do) if it really is that 70s in style, if it really is that straight rock throughout, and all the other things we´ve been told it is by TP and the sales-pitches and labeling surrounding it. That is, just like Mojo, to me HE is largely an album hyped and sold to fit in a tight, ovely simplified music form that it can´t easily be squeezed into. In short - it is so much more than it´s said to be! And that, my friend, to me, is a good thing and that´s also why I think - labels aside - that you and I are quite on the level.

      Perhaps the closest thing to 70s in style would be Tom's voice on the first song. It sounds more nasally than the past decades worth of songs; it was most evident the first couple times I listened to American Dream Plan B but after a while I don't even notice it. That's about it to my ears. This album has the vibe of the first two records or three even but with the wonderful influence of Mojo and as I've said before, decades of experience.

 I also agree with you about the album being more than that. Good point, Shelter!

  Full Grown Boy, Red River, Sins of My Youth, Fault Lines, Shadow People, Power Drunk, all to varying degrees feel like the band stretching themselves. Even the wonderful acoustic turn in American Dream Plan B.

  I just looked at the album cover again and noted that all songs are written by Tom save Fault Lines by him and Mike. That's a large chunk of impressive songwriting!  I would've thought Mike had more of a hand on some of the riffs, but I guess not. 

12 hours ago, Shelter said:

Once the basic tracks were in place and the band had found their groove and added their bits and pieces, all of the cutting, pasting, overdubbing various instruments and even whatever little harmony singing is on there, was taken care of by TP and Ryan, alone.

 While this feels disappointing to me, I can't argue with the finished album. I love the idea of a band recording songs as is, slight speeding up in tempos, perhaps a missed note here and there, the beautiful chemistry of live music captured to vinyl, character over pro-tools.

cheers

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I guess the example of HE shows that making albums in the end always involves a good deal of smoke and mirrors. Things usually are not what you think they are. What you hear is a band playing, but more often than not, there are more instruments on than could have been played simultaneously (I was surprised that there are so many overdubs on Damn The Torpedoes; very subtle). As much as we usually see authenticity as a high value in singer songwriters and bands like TPHB, making music is very akin to doing magic tricks. I think what's important is that the emotional and cognitive core, so to speak, of the music is authentic. Like I don't want a person I know in everyday life - a friend, a colleague - to be phony; I want to be sure that I can take what they say at face value (otherwise - what's the point?). The difference is, music is an art form. As such it needs and uses certain kinds of mediation. Records of course are a medium. And making records is a process where artists try to find a way to get their art across. One way or another. And TP has always been someone who is very open to using very different ways. What counts is the end result, as MJs2ndLD stated above, and as Petty himself says in Runnin' Down a Dream (the documentary). Sometimes it's just not feasible to get a whole band together and make them play all at the same time to get the perfect sound and feel. That involves a great deal of troubles (logistics, acoustics, moods of the players). Especially with today's recording software, things get a whole lot easier for artists. Cut and paste, copy and paste, countless available tracks.... the advantages are endless. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. For TPHB to come up with a record that sounds as little tricked up as HE does is quite an achievement. But the ideal image that most people have - I think - that what they hear is a band playing live, all in the same spirit, with some kind of a what-you-hear-is-what-you-get attitude - I think that only was true for a rather short period in the history of popular music. Maybe 1955 to 1965, between the groundbreaking Sun Records recordings and the moment when the Beatles realized they could use the studio as an instrument. Records are artifacts, in the end. Not documentaries. Or they can be, of course, but you should not let the magicians trick you into believing everything you hear.

Sorry for rambling on for so long on thoughts that probably are obvious to you anyway... I just wrote and thought at the same time... :blink:

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4 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

I just wrote and thought at the same time... :blink:

Good work at that, must say!! :D

 

Seriously. I find nothing upsetting in it, at all. Record making, as much as music making generally certainly is art and it certainly is the end result that matters. Methods mean less. What I sometimes find disturbing - and increasingly so in our age, when art really isn't so much art, as mindless consumerism - is the widening discrepancies between what is sold and what it's being sold as, spin doctors out-pope the Pope in defining existence, even by lying straight to our faces. I just like an apple to be an apple, to speak farmer´s market lingo (unless it's a computer of course - in which case I am allergic anyway....). I guess there is some kind of deconstructivistic or post modern art in calling an apple a pear too, but that to me is something unworthy of rock´n´roll... This guitar sounds like a flute - so what? Either say it's a guitar, or just don't say nothing at all, and leave the mystery be already. I have no opinions (morally) about techniques, but I do have some about shades of hypocrisy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Totally agreed. I just don't remember anymore what the "hype" on HE went like exactly. Which is to say: I'm not sure whether anyone really claimed the album was recorded in an old fashioned 70s way. Or if journalists just wrote it sounded like Tom's earlier albums. Which I never would have thought of, but maybe someone did. Superficially, maybe it's even true, when you compare HE to all albums since, say, Full Moon Fever. Or at least compared to the albums released in the new millennium. Mojo featured some bluesier elements than others (even though, as we all know, it was not the straight ahead blues album it was said to be), Highway Companion was an acoustic solo effort, The Last DJ the big concept album on the record industry (and present-day society in general), and a little more eclectic affair at that... besides, so many years passed between the albums (plus Mudcrutch and Runnin' Down a Dream!), some music critics and journalists may have lost track of the Heartbreakers' stylistic development. And all of a sudden, they release a song that rocks a bit harder than they have in years, and - bam! - it's 1976 in some critics' minds all over again.

Inside the cover of the first Mudcrutch album it says the album was recorded live without overdubs. Though I would not totally rule out any possibility that one overdub or another was added, but all in all I believe it. Nothing like that is mentioned on HE's cover or in the booklet.

What it all comes down to in the end: Is HE less rock and roll if it was recorded with Pro Tools, using overdubs, copy and paste and other studio wizardry?

Did the record company or Tom's management or even Tom himself try to sell HE as a back-to-the-roots effort? Does anyone remember?

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6 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

What it all comes down to in the end: Is HE less rock and roll if it was recorded with Pro Tools, using overdubs, copy and paste and other studio wizardry?

Well, again, yes and no. And no. That is, yes it is what it comes down to in terms of listening experience, but no it's not what it comes down to in terms of what I've been on about. Hence, arguably no, HE is not less r'n'r.

 

6 hours ago, TwoGunslingers said:

Did the record company or Tom's management or even Tom himself try to sell HE as a back-to-the-roots effort? Does anyone remember?

 

I guess you kinda know my take by now, but just in case... :) What I build my "case" on when I ramble on about how overly simplistic, not to say tasteless, marketing logic has been employed (well, at least happening, if by accident) on a somewhat new (that is higher, that is worse) level than before, in promoting Mojo and HE, is mainly three things. One is what TP, Ryan and the occasional other have been saying in interviews. The other two deal in what we may call "general consensus" and they touch upon what you say in terms of personal opinion, taste, preferences, memory, education, what goes on in peoples "minds", yes. First we have the critics. Then we have the fans.  

They all seem to prefer a black and white and easily marketable view of the last albums. Mojo is a blues and roots album. HE is a 70s style garage rock album. I just don't here that, as you well know by now. Or rather, I hear so much more than that. That type of image building simplifications are like calling water for oxygene, if you catch my drift. (Nothing wrong with oxygene, of course, but let's not forget there is hydrogene in there too, right.)

I guess my answer to your qustion would run something like, yes, I do remember. Leaving the mostly agreeable and amplifying filters that is critics and hype aside, so to speak, going straight to the horse mouth, I do remember both TP and Ryan talking in interviews of how HE was very much a back to basics inspired effort (not that it was cut in old fashoined ways necessarily, that may have been added by the word of mouth), a deliberate attempt to make things simple, pure and straight again. This was said many times. Again, no words on how excatly it was done, that I can recall. If anything Ryan told interviers of how much production work was really done after the basic tracks were done, he revealed how much of this album is cut and paste and how much of it that is really TP. And that latter aspect is key to my critisism, as been discussed elsewhere (I hope and believe). TP (and others) has indeed been talking about, and making a deal of, HE in terms of a band effort - in opposition, supposedly, to his (I'm guessing here) 1989 - 2006 studio work that was more TP + hired session Heartbreakers. That, to me does not compute with what HE really is, no matter how great it sounds. I don't hear a band effort, when arrangements minimize several band members and when post session work mainly adds TP himself in all the gaps. I find myself reading about this warm, authentically produced (or something to that effect) album and I wonder, where is Ben? Where is Scott? Who really plays the bass..?   

I don't have the time and energy to find all the quotes supporting what I try to get at hear, in terms of sneakiness - deliberate or not - but I am fairly certain that you are right - No, the band themeselves, nor the management, never claimed straight out that HE is a 70s roots album, even if many people of the "masses" have taken that from what's been said and transformed it into truth, much like happened with Mojo and the blues. When it comes to the style, it's about creating an image that people will buy and however subtle that has been done it has succeeded. And that may be sad to witness - just like giving away albums with live tieckets will grant you a Bilboard nr 1 - but none of that is very important to me. When it comes to how the album was made though, overdubs or not, there is also an image created, a band image and that one to me is more troublesome, I must say.

Not sure it that goes anywhere in terms of specifying where I come from in this. But you are right, those are fair questions in the face of what I have been saying on the issue. The subject itself may be worthy of a whole doctoral thesis, I suppose, and that's not for me. But I do believe I'm on to something here. Both as for the market in general and for latter era TP. 

 

 

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On October 10, 2016 at 3:52 AM, TwoGunslingers said:

But the ideal image that most people have - I think - that what they hear is a band playing live, all in the same spirit, with some kind of a what-you-hear-is-what-you-get attitude - I think that only was true for a rather short period in the history of popular music.

   It's not why I love Frank Black and the Catholics, that would be the great songs, but simply a bonus, that they recorded live to two track, with only one or two edits on their first two records and none going forward. However, by the end of the band's existence, the word is that some band members were tiring of it.

It's impressive to listen to some of their music and think they got this song recorded live without editing...!

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Shelter said:

 TP (and others) has indeed been talking about, and making a deal of, HE in terms of a band effort - in opposition, supposedly, to his (I'm guessing here) 1989 - 2006 studio work that was more TP + hired session Heartbreakers. That, to me does not compute with what HE really is, no matter how great it sounds. I don't hear a band effort, when arrangements minimize several band members and when post session work mainly adds TP himself in all the gaps. I find myself reading about this warm, authentically produced (or something to that effect) album and I wonder, where is Ben? Where is Scott? Who really plays the bass..? 

I think as I've stated sometime in the past that one should never underestimate the dictator factor in that band construct we call Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. Very early on, it was clear that Tom was the one who had the record contract, he was the artist the label wanted to promote, he was the singer, the songwriter... and in the end the one who always has the last word on everything. At least that's what I gather from all I've read so far. Mike might have a certain special status becaus he writes, too, and gives Tom musical ideas to write songs to. But the rest more or less are executive musicians who are allowed to toy with ideas, but in the end, it's always Tom Petty who's the boss. That's why I alwasy found it strange that FMF and Wildflowers were called solo albums. Where's the difference? According to that logic, shouldn't ITGWO also be called a solo album? But actually that's another discussion. What I'm trying to say is I don't think the band input has ever been too strong. Nowadays Tom just has the technical ( = digital) means of putting things together and moving parts around after the actual recording of tracks as he wishes and his role as benevolent dictator :lol: becomes more obvious, maybe.

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15 hours ago, MaryJanes2ndLastDance said:

   It's not why I love Frank Black and the Catholics, that would be the great songs, but simply a bonus, that they recorded live to two track, with only one or two edits on their first two records and none going forward. However, by the end of the band's existence, the word is that some band members were tiring of it.

It's impressive to listen to some of their music and think they got this song recorded live without editing...!

Yes, they did some amazing things with that technique. And everybody should do those things as they please. Which is, imho, the first crucial necessary condition needed to make a good album. Still, I think you limit yourself too much by constraining the band to rules like this. You stay behind your possibilities.

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1 hour ago, TwoGunslingers said:

I think as I've stated sometime in the past that one should never underestimate the dictator factor in that band construct we call Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. Very early on, it was clear that Tom was the one who had the record contract, he was the artist the label wanted to promote, he was the singer, the songwriter... and in the end the one who always has the last word on everything. At least that's what I gather from all I've read so far. Mike might have a certain special status becaus he writes, too, and gives Tom musical ideas to write songs to. But the rest more or less are executive musicians who are allowed to toy with ideas, but in the end, it's always Tom Petty who's the boss. That's why I alwasy found it strange that FMF and Wildflowers were called solo albums. Where's the difference? According to that logic, shouldn't ITGWO also be called a solo album? But actually that's another discussion. What I'm trying to say is I don't think the band input has ever been too strong. Nowadays Tom just has the technical ( = digital) means of putting things together and moving parts around after the actual recording of tracks as he wishes and his role as benevolent dictator :lol: becomes more obvious, maybe.

Which, again, is all just fine! Just say so, is all I'm saying. Or at least don't try to imply the opposite.

 

Interesting side discussion of what is labeled solo and what is labeled Heartbreakers, btw. We've been there from various angles in the past, but in this context I would like to say that I generally agree with what you say here. What really is the difference? Well, for one difference, I suppose for most TP&TH releases to date, at least the band all got to play on more or less all songs. As for input it's hard to say, but while MC certainly has at least minor input on both TP & TPHB issues, I'd said, I would guess that all of them have had certain input on at least parts of most TPHB releases, while supposedly no say on the TP releases. But as for any really clean cut definition, I guess there isn't any. 

And as for ITGWO, it is certainly worth pondering it's status here. Right. Seems to be somewhere in between, for sure. Within the frames of my above reasoning I would suggest that Mojo for example really is a band effort album that doesn't only sounds like it, while HE is more along the border lines of ITGWO in this respect. In the first case that seems to match the sales pitch reasonably, in the latter not so much.

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On August 5, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Shelter said:

For one thing, as warm and organic as this album feels on an overall level – and, yes.. I think I hear Ben play well enough! - I immediately, upon first hearing the album from start to finish, felt a few traces of cut and paste going on (Red River being the most striking example on the album - it's plain to hear how it really was two songs initially). That in itself is not much of a problem, studio magic nothing new. The easiness by which these things were detected however, raised my awareness of how the cozy vibe of the album might not all together hold up to severe scrutiny. That’s when the issue with the backing vocals dawned on me. Somehow the lack of Scott and Ben really gives me the idea that Eye isn’t quite the back-to-basic, all-together-now, band effort it is posing as.

 

I have a feeling that despite surely fun and warm sessions, recording most(?) of the actual music creatively and together, the fine but oh so important touches that would stitch the sessions up with mixing levels, adding overdubs, making it an overall warm and alive felt band album, ended up a tad short handed, given the amazing material they obviously had to work with. In my opinion this happened when they didn't include the band and their various qualities all the way in the process.

 

Listening closely, the result, it could be argued, despite great band performances on studio floor level, feels as much a Tom Petty solo effort in vibe as do most of his admittedly solo released stuff. With such apparently extensive TP overdubs done to it by TP (with Ryan and Mike, surely) and likewise apparently few other Heartbreaker touches to be find in the fine musical details and vibes addeds, TP and RU seemingly not only decided what was needed, which needless to say would be normal operating procedure (rock’n’roll is not democracy, no matter what bands tell you), but seemingly they actually went on to finish up and add what’s needed all between themselves. Much as I would imagine would’ve been the case with TP and Lynne for their albums and with TP and Rubin on Wildflowers. Then band as simply tools and intruments for TP to use, rather than people and voices, adding those extra dimensions to his songs.

Have you read this?

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/inside-track-tom-pettys-hypnotic-eye

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Ok. I got to it.

I really like how this line:

Focusing on the music, rather than on the gear, is a real lesson and challenge for everybody who is an engineer and/or a mixer

kinda feels at odds with this: 

D-Command elaborate monitoring system monitors by ATC, KRK, Genelec and Auratone Bag End 18-inch subs D-link cables Avid Venue system 48 inputs Pro Tools rig two 192s, 24 inputs and outputs. Greg Looper Shure Beta 52 SM91 Yamama Subkick R2D2 SM57 on the top and a condenser Neumann KM184 at the bottom [Neumann] KM84 Sennheiser 421s AKG 414s Stephen Paul-modified Neumann U87s Avid preamp Shure SM57. Scott Thurston Shure 520DX ‘bullet’ mic AKG 414s Leslie cab two 414s Steinway U87s DI Telefunken M80 Neumann M150 SM57 U47 a mic made by Charlie Bolois of Vertigo Recording Services capsule in front of a circuit that uses a 6072 vacuum tube, like the C12 has, transformer vintage Neve 24-input 1073 pres UA blackface 1176s Fairchild stereo limiter two ATC SCM50s and one Bag End Infrasub 18 for super low end small guesthouse Massenburg DesignWorks Hi-Res Parametric EQ, UA 1176, Digidesign Long Delay II, SoundToys Decapitator. MDW EQ plug-in 1176 UAD 1176 plug-in 98ms, Dbx 120A subharmonic Neumann 87 through the Neve 1073 mic pre and the hardware UA 1176 added 3dB of 1kHz Magnatone amplifier, “using a 57” Neve 1073 again and more 1176 hardware units 300Hz Wurlitzer MDW/1176 combination 1176 below 300Hz and at 4kHz the Leslie high horn has no 1176 (would you look at that!!)  just some MDW rolling off 250Hz, and rolling off 150Hz ‘Voc Amb’ track 24/48 A-D 16/44.1

Wow. Did all that just go over my head. Safe to say that "lesson" kinda failed...

Then there is stuff like "everything was done on a 2006 DAW with 95 percent of the processing applied by just two plug-ins  and we seem to be back at the simple again, back at music first. All in all, quite an “arch” of an argument, if I ever seen one. Recording this album really was all that simple? As simple as having 13 guitars and three levels of bass on the same track can ever be, I suppose. Besides. I am no numerologist, but 1176 seem to be key to this operation here, am I right?

Ok. Back to being serious. After reading this article (thanks for posting!), I’d say that my initial feeling upon hearing this album, about hits the spot right on. That is, HE being such a “band album” was largely hype. To me it sounds like, and seems kinda confirmed, that it is a basic-tracks-played-live-by-band-all-the-rest-is-patchwork type of an album. To play the basic tracks live like described may be what's so unusual and authentic about it. But that only goes so far. It’s a fantastic album! Truly! And the method largely pays off, imo. But at times it DOES come off as pasted together, that is, at least to me all the cutting and pasting on the surface of it IS noticeble. All that said, I kinda wish they had done this article from more of a Red River standpoint instead. Because, to me, that is where some of the creative editing, seems.. the most creative.

As much as I love this album, over the cause of this last week, I'm having a bit of trouble listening to it for some reason. I find this process that we are all in for the moment, for me had led me towards some of the stuff I normally don't play as much.. like Highway Companion.. I am sure though, in the long run, I'll get back to HE and that it is and will be one of the strongest installments in the whole of TP's genius catalog. I think they really nailed it on this one, in many ways!

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8 hours ago, Shelter said:

That is, HE being such a “band album” was largely hype. To me it sounds like, and seems kinda confirmed, that it is a basic-tracks-played-live-by-band-all-the-rest-is-patchwork type of an album. To play the basic tracks live like described may be what's so unusual and authentic about it.

     I think it's a band album as much as any album is. It seems most are patchwork performances and it comes down to the skill of the seamstress in disguising it. From the article it seems like the performances were augmented with overdubs and such. Was it as much of a full performance record as Mojo purports, doesn't seem that way.

 

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

limiter two ATC SCM50s and one Bag End Infrasub 18 for super low end small guesthouse Massenburg DesignWorks Hi-Res Parametric EQ, UA 1176, Digidesign Long Delay II, SoundToys Decapitator. MDW EQ plug-in 1176 UAD 1176 plug-in 98ms, Dbx 120A subharmonic Neumann 87 through the Neve 1073 mic pre and the hardware UA 1176 added 3dB of 1kHz Magnatone amplifier, “using a 57” Neve 1073 a

 Ha ha ha.

 

8 hours ago, Shelter said:

I find this process that we are all in for the moment, for me had led me towards some of the stuff I normally don't play as much..

 Perhaps it's easier to ignore albums you enjoy, to not conflate whatever sadness you feel with those records and so you go to the songs you haven't listened to as much.

Also, it could be people are more open to listening to lesser played tracks after a musician dies, to find something to appreciate in what they formerly disliked. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but it could also be the closest to getting new music, listening to songs that sound new but aren't.

For the first time in ages I listened to the studio version of IGTBK; what a great sounding album.

Back to Hypnotic Eye, I'm probably going to listen to it soon; my enjoyment of this album has only increased, the album just flows; it's a very quick listen. All You Can Carry thru Forgotten Man is an interesting run of songs, Power Drunk serving as a nice transition between the determined groove of Can Carry and the faster upbeat Forgotten Man. 

cheers

 

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Thank you for the link.  But , there is do much technical stuff going on , you wonder , what's real or patched , etc.  What happened to bands just playing , editing.  I realize why my home studio could never sound as good as this  ( there are words I can't even pronounce lol ).  I still like the album though.  I wonder what it would've sound like with less technology.  Same overdubs , but just less techno stuff. 

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13 hours ago, Timflyte said:

I realize why my home studio could never sound as good as this  ( there are words I can't even pronounce lol ). 

Don't underestimate the sound of your own studio! 

13 hours ago, Timflyte said:

what's real or patched , etc

There was a band called Frank Black and the Catholics who eventually adopted a live to two-track no edits method of recording. They're a great band! So it's possible but I can understand why bands layer in parts; in the end how the finished song/album sound is what counts.

13 hours ago, Timflyte said:

I still like the album though.

Next to Full Moon Fever I think it's the best album they have, which is a surprising thing; I didn't think I'd like it as much as I have and it's held up over the past three years.

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Let me explain why bands layer tracks. If you had a 50 piece band and each was plugged into their own track (50 track recorder) then 1 take would be all that's needed if everyone played the song right with no mistakes. Then just sit back at the console and mix those 50 tracks to the right levels and you'd be done and have a record. IF you have a 3 piece band like me, that's impossible to do. If the 3 of us plug into 3 tracks with 3 guitars, all we have is 3 live guitars, where are the other 47 tracks? That's why you layer. Now the 3 of us get on 3 different instruments (drums, bass, keyboards) and plug into tracks 4-6 and play live again. When that's done you have 6 tracks completed. Now you start again with the same 3 people and add 3 more tracks with other instruments Live, maybe violins, tambourine, clave's. Now you are up to 9 tracks and haven't even started thinking of vocals. Maybe double track lead vocals and then backup vocals, now we're up to at least 13 tracks. It could go on forever. Even the greatest band on earth made mistakes and used an extra track to replace 1 bad note, instead of re-recording the entire sequence. You see, to me recording live is just what it says, that's what I do. Sure you layer in other tracks, but they were all recorded live too, because I don't have a 50 piece band to do it all in 1 take. I think you get the idea by now. I don't think that even Tom got everything right live in 1 take, I'm sure they added a couple tracks to make it better.

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