The "Paper"

[jonjen]

While I don’t want to belabor the issue of who found the paper (which is insignificant), or to create any friction, I feel this NEEDS to be said so people don’t think the find was some sort of “goldmine”, as described by certain parties.

Just a little history about office practices in the 60s and 70s for those who were too young to know.

Unlike today, there was no such thing as voice messaging, and individual extension numbers, and cell phones, and beepers, etc. etc. While these devices may have existed, they were not in use back then in the days before automation.

Most companies (especially the larger ones) were staffed with a switchboard operator or main receptionist who screened all incoming calls and redirected them to the appropriate party, at which end a secretary would further screen the call before putting it through to her boss, IF, in her opinion, it warranted being put through. The phones consisted of 2 or 3 lines that lit up when in use, and contained an intercom or buzzer system by which the boss and secretary communicated. If the 2 or 3 lines were in use, the call would kick back to the switchboard operator, who would take a message.

Also, when a secretary went on break or lunch, she was usually replaced by another person to ensure the phones were manned, at all times. If not, the calls were lost on the boss because he wouldn’t answer the phone, even if he was in the office - it was not his responsibility to do so. Back in those days, also, some bosses didn’t even place their own phone calls. Their secretary did it.

Unlike today, there was no such thing as “by-passing” the secretary. That is evident when Tom Petty walked into a certain company with tapes in hand and was faced with a secretary who found him (et al) cute and summoned her boss.

You could not dial a company executive “directly” (by-pass the secretary) because the telephone number for both the executive and the secretary were one and the same, with the secretary answering all incoming calls and using the intercom system to identify the caller and/or the nature of the call, at which point her boss would either pick up the phone or tell his secretary to make up some excuse for not answering - usually ‘he’s out of the office’ or ‘he’s on another line’ (the caller would be put on ‘hold” forever until he hung up.

So, with the exception of the name of a contact person, which could easily be produced with one phone call to the various companies, the “goldmine” contained nothing more than the information already contained in the yellow pages of a phone book, with all the company names, addresses, and telephone numbers compiled under one category – no need to thumb through the phone book and/or get paper cuts.

Of course, Danny Roberts could not be expected to know this, having presumably never worked in an administrative capacity in an office environment, as he intertwines today’s automated office practices with yesterday’s (over 30 years ago) much more personalized service, when one got a “real” person at the other end of the phone and not a machine.

The fact remains that paper would not have changed the course of events, whether Tom Petty used the yellow pages of a phone book or whether he used the “paper” to place calls to the various record companies.

Thank you for allowing me to share these thoughts with you.

[AmyLou]

salient point jj - interesting - thanks :)

[Mudcrutch]

Cliff notes:

Tom was a force that couldn't be stopped. He would have "made it" with or without finding some paper with record companies executives numbers on it.

------

I don't think anybody can deny that.. although a few might try. :)

[Mary Jane 49]

Yes i remember thats how it was in the 60s and 70s
Thanks JJ ,theres no arguing with your logic,and Tom was always destined to make it

[jonjen]

Cliff notes:

Tom was a force that couldn't be stopped. He would have "made it" with or without finding some paper with record companies executives numbers on it.

And, that's a fact! :)

[jonjen]

It would be remiss not to mention that the whole venture might have collapsed (and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers would not exist, today) if not for the trust, loyalty, support, and dedication of the other members of the band in Tom Petty and vice versa.

[Mudcrutch]

It would be remis not to mention that the whole venture might have collapsed (and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers would not exist, today) if not for the trust, loyalty, support, and dedication of the other members of the band in Tom Petty and vice versa.

QFT

Definitely something I was thinking about reading this thread.

[Mudcrutch]

Quoted for Truth

or

Quite Fucking True

sometimes you will see somebody quoting a post and only saying QFT.

[jonjen]

Thanx, Mudcrutch. I looked it up under http://www.acronymfinder.com/ that's why I deleted my post. :)

[PumpkinBumpkin]

Very interesting thread,and I mean that in a good way. :)

[Danny Roberts]

Dear Farmers,
This is getting funny, and I mean that in a pathetic way. And JonJen, it Did collapse. It was Benmont who brought the guys back together under the auspices of Benmont having studio time and a certain group of people showed-up. Shit happens. Oh, and you forgot to include whether offices in the 70s used rotary phones or had switched-over to the easier on the cuticle 'touch-tone' system. Had the water-cooler yet been replaced by the micro-wave oven as the place people would gather to spread gossip and lies? I think this thread has become a 'virtual water-cooler', and your own lives are somewhat lacking in purpose, if ya'll are latching on to this line of bullshit. JonJen, please share some of your rivetting stories on YOUR adventures in the record business when YOU were 22 years-old. Oh, and the guy at London Records, Raul Abeyta, who wanted to possibly sign us, had us make a demo of covers, including "Your Mama Don't Dance", (TP singing), "Saturday Night's Alright For Fightin'", (me singing), along with 3 or 4 songs that don't come to mind right now. He was gonna book us at a club in the valley so that we could support ourselves while doing the lawyer/negotiation thang. So you guys have fun imagining how things worked back then. Oh, and I wound-up dating the girl at Shelter Records that thought we were 'cute' for about 6-months, Tom's 'life-long friend', Andrea Starr. And she didn't summon her 'boss'. A few months later, Tom and I were in her office the day that Dwight Twilley and Phil Seymour brought their demo in and left it with her. Andrea played about 7-8 minutes of it, she got it to Denny, who signed them, shortly after-which they scored a top-40 hit. We saw the whole promotion team lose interest in us and put all their resources into 'Twilley'. And Mudcrutch, who are those that are trying to say that Tom wouldn't have made it without the list of numbers? Hopefully, I'll have made a 'salient' point by now. I'll say it one last time, I'm happy for their success and wish them well. But you guys are starting to operate in some sort of fantasy-land, non-parellel universe. You Just Weren't There, so all your yammerin'-on is nothing more than bullshit. You're trying to create the rock & roll equivelent of an 'urban legend'.
Calm down, Sincerely, Danny Roberts

Pee Ess - Ya'll are invited to my house for brunch after church this coming Sunday
after church.
Pee Ess Ess - RIP, Buddy Miles

[jonjen]

Thank you. You proved my point; that being, you still had to go through a secretary. As you wrote, it was the secretary who "got it (the tapes) to Denny". She drew his attention to the tapes and THAT'S 'summoning' in office lingo. Summoning one’s attention or drawing one’s attention are synonymous.

"...And she didn't summon her 'boss'. A few months later, Tom and I were in her office the day that Dwight Twilley and Phil Seymour brought their demo in and left it with her. Andrea played about 7-8 minutes of it, she got it to Denny..."

With or without that paper, the course of events would not have changed.

And, just because Andrea dated you didn't mean you were "cute". If that was the case, EVERY “attached” male on planet earth would have to be considered cute? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and from the photos I've seen, it's not likely you turned many heads back then. Sorry, but that’s just my opinion.

"And JonJen, it Did collapse. It was Benmont who brought the guys back together under the auspices of Benmont having studio time and a certain group of people showed-up."

Evidently, it DIDN'T collapse since Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers are still going strong, 30+ years later. That was just one of many hurdles Tom Petty and the boys had to overcome on their journey to rock stardom. And, they made it! It was through their mutual loyalty, dedication, and support (words that are foreign to you) that they were able to overcome such obstacles in their path, as you (by your own account) pulled the plug over something stupid. By the way, you didn't mention who, specifically, kept calling you to return to the band, if we are to believe your account. Certainly, not Tom Petty otherwise you would be rubbing his nose in it, right now, along with all the other b.s. you spew.

Anyway, you go ahead and keep deluding yourself with your self-aggrandizement because you certainly can't convince anyone else.

From everything I've read, including your own accounts, your contribution to the "official" Mudcrutch (heck, even before it became official with the signing of a contract) was miniscule, at best, and THAT'S why you are where you are, today, and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers are where they are, today.

Bottom line, as one other member put it so eloquently, “Tom was a force that couldn't be stopped. He would have "made it" with or without finding some paper with record companies executives numbers on it.” And, THAT’S A FACT!!!

By the way, how’s your new venture (Mudbreakers) coming along? The one you were soooooo excited about that consumed so much of your time, as you sit on this board trying to manipulate and twist people’s perceptions of what went on over 30 years ago and diss Tom Petty, in the process?

[jonjen]

P.S.

Oh, and the guy at London Records, Raul Abeyta, who wanted to possibly sign us, had us make a demo of covers, including "Your Mama Don't Dance", (TP singing), "Saturday Night's Alright For Fightin'", (me singing), along with 3 or 4 songs that don't come to mind right now. He was gonna book us at a club in the valley so that we could support ourselves while doing the lawyer/negotiation thang.

You keep talking in the third person ("us" and "we", etc.), with respect to the "wheelings and dealings" with record company execs (for someone who claims to have been a "catalyst" and instrumental in procuring a contract deal).

Who was the band's "spokesman"? Who took responsibility for all the wheelings and dealings and negotiations with record company execs? Who ultimately landed the contract deal? Those are rhetorical questions! We know who! TOM PETTY!

[emmie]

Tom's "THE MAN" He was back then, and he still is. All this crap about something that might have gone on 30 odd years ago is ridiculous. What's the point anyway? Keep moaning on about it isn't going to change history.

Tom was and still is the leader. Get used to it. He seems to have done a pretty darn good job at it and still is. I'm sick of hearing about Tom did this and Tom did that. Tom screwed me over blah blah.

[Pettylicious81]

And anyway I read in the Playback book that Tom and Danny didn't get along any. When Denny Cordell said he wanted Tom to sing all the leads, Danny wasn't up for it. So therefore, they parted ways. If anything, Danny got pissed over that...which is why he's badmouthing Tom probably

[chatanooga]

judging by the tone of danny's post, the valium and prozac appear to be working....now, be a good boy danny and go to sleep.

[user was temporarily banned for 2 days for this post]

[Mudcrutch]

Interesting choice of 1st post. I don't think speculating on someone's medication is appropriate.

[Relic]

Actually I think both are correct -

Using a time machine invented many years from now, 'Old' Tom will go back in time with the paper, and make sure someone finds it and gives it to 'Young' Tom. He'll also try to talk some sense into him about punching walls, and studying up on publishing rights and fine print.

But you know how young rebels are :)

[Danny Roberts]

Dearest,Non-Gender Specific JonJen,
Lay off the Red Bull! I just got my Valium, Prozac, Paxil, Thorazine and HGH prescriptions filled. I'd be glad to front you a few, as it seems yer a little tense! There's a 12-step program out there for you somewhere. You've just got to take it one day at a time and everything will be alright. You just need to open up and don't hold anything back, dude, or dudette. Are you feeling powerful yet? Really, come on over for brunch or 'pancake day'. Nothin' like some pancakes fresh offa the griddle! Then we could go fishin' or lookin' for sea-shells. JJ, where were you back a coupla months-ago, when I actually might've given a rat's-ass? You are one analytical non-gender specific mystery-dude/dudette! Please, tell me more. I'm really intrigued at gettin' to know the real JonJen. Like, who ya supporting in the Democratic race?
Your Friend, Danny Roberts

[Mudcrutch]

:lock: